dagblog - Comments for "World Silent Over Muslim Brotherhood's Blockade of Gaza"

Abbas/Fatah seems sidelined

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:22:45 +0000

In reply to I've read Palestinian voices

Abbas/Fatah seems sidelined in all this - who does that benefit?a

Let's say Abbas' UN statehood resolution is officially dead. Was that the cause of all this? Maybe Bibi's and Hamas' druthers are intertwined.

Not sure why you're surprised

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:18:47 +0000

In reply to Are you explaining and

Not sure why you're surprised - think I'd recommend any country commit diplomatic/political suicide, especially when confronted with 2 international powerhouse? Yes, "brother" is overused in the Arab world - lots of hate between various Arab countries. And yes, Egypt a new-born democracy, very fragile internally. Caveat.

Re: Israeli missiles, I'm saying if Israel suspects smuggling through the Egyptian end, they're quite able and willing to use missiles on Egypt. That's an escalation we do not need. As for Muslims in Jordan, no, I don't think they're full accepted into the society, and since there's still the dream of return to Palestine, it's been decades of holding still.

So yeah, pragmatic.

Are you explaining and

artappraiser — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:36:20 +0000

In reply to Brothers's keeper, but also a

Are you explaining and elaborating or debating on their behalf? I didn't myself didn't need explanation/elaboration, but it's helpful for others, I'm sure.

If you're debating, I'll just say I'm surprised to find you arguing for political moderation and compromise, rather than political parties standing firm and in unity on long-held principles, in this case across borders.

The situation is very ironic, is all I was saying. A Muslim Brotherhood should be welcoming to members everywhere and want to trade openly with them and be almost borderless. Seems instead that this 'Abd al-Rahman al-Banna, the brother of the Muslim Brotherhood founder Hasan al-Banna, went to the British Mandate for Palestine and established the Muslim Brotherhood there comes back to bite Morsi, and it also says to me that Hamas is no longer considered a real "Brother" or vice versa. You don't lock out your brother on grounds he's dangerous to you or because he might eat you out of house and home.

If you're debating, you're debating it's wise and good that Morsi is moderate and rejecting his more radical brother and the original dreams.

As far as receiving end of Israeli missiles for suspected smuggling: are you saying that if Gaza had a truly open border on one side, they would still be attacking Israel? Makes Israel's current argument for them. As far as permanent refugees a la Jordan: means the original Muslim Brotherhood ideology has become considered hogwash; why would they be refugees and not become full welcome contributing members of the Muslim society where they chose to come and live? Etc.

I've read Palestinian voices

artappraiser — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:07:20 +0000

In reply to The December issue of

I've read Palestinian voices as well complain that Hamas likes the status quo for the tunnels, not only for the tax money and kickbacks but also to control what the population gets, sees and reads.

Seems to me the real problem here is the same problem of Arab governments that the Arab Spring reacted against: outsiders can't know for sure, and even most insiders can't know for sure. The conspiracy theorizing is always there because you can't know for sure. The Hamas government is not even open enough or organized enough for for a NYT, for example, to do what it did with Prime Minister Wen Jibao's relatives in China. Nobody has a real clue what's really going nor a way to figure it out. All rumor all the time.

Morsi has walked a

Bruce Levine — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:04:25 +0000

In reply to Hillary appears happy with

Morsi has walked a tight-rope. From what I can see he's done the right thing here. Good for him. Unfortunately, stay-tuned.

Hillary appears happy with

artappraiser — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:55:11 +0000

In reply to World Silent Over Muslim Brotherhood's Blockade of Gaza

Hillary appears happy with whatever the Egyptians have been doing so far:

Cease-Fire Reached In Gaza, 11/21/2012| 01:25pm US/Eastern

...."Egypt is assuming the responsibility and leadership that has long made this country a cornerstone of international peace," Mrs. Clinton told reporters....

The December issue of

NCD — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:04:48 +0000

In reply to World Silent Over Muslim Brotherhood's Blockade of Gaza

The December issue of National Geographic has an article "The Tunnels of Gaza" which says 2/3's of consumer goods come into Gaza from Egypt through tunnels. Building materials, food, livestock and once even a lion for the Gaza Zoo included.

It says Hamas skims tunnel revenues through tunnel taxes. The reporter was told there are VIP tunnels with air conditioning. There was even a report that a rich Gaza merchant, worried Israel might loosen the blockade of Gaza, had once paid militants to fire some missiles across the border into Israel to ensure continued tunnel profits.

There are many good faith

Bruce Levine — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:50:27 +0000

In reply to Brothers's keeper, but also a

There are many good faith reasons for blockades to exist.

Brothers's keeper, but also a

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 11:28:11 +0000

In reply to Issandr el Amrani wrote on

Brothers's keeper, but also a fragile new democracy. The US Congress already has been hollering to punish Egypt and withdraw money because the new regime's not friendly enough towards Israel. And Hillary's first intervention was to replace Mubarek with Mubarek's #2, same as it ever was.

So no, Egypt can't commit hara kiri just to be seen as the good guy - Israel/US determine the acceptable limits, and for now, that's the playing field they have to strategize with.

Russia Today notes the irony that we support Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt & Syria, but not in Gaza.

Nevertheless, Egyptians are more worried about the economy than their own constitution, much less Palestine. That's actually positive news for Israel, since the Arab world's infatuation with Israel at the expense of developing economies and democracies has been a problem for some time.

Anyway, Egypt knows there's little to gain here and much to lose, whether it's the receiving end of Israeli missiles for suspected smuggling, or a load of permanent refugees a la Jordan. Better to play it safe.

Issandr el Amrani wrote on

artappraiser — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:52:08 +0000

In reply to World Silent Over Muslim Brotherhood's Blockade of Gaza

Issandr el Amrani wrote on this in What Hamas wants (mostly from Egypt?) at his Arabist blog on Monday. He quotes David Kirkpatrick @ NYTimes at length on the Egyptian involvement, what Hamas demands are, how they are testing how much Morsi will stand with them, that maybe they don't have to compromise much, etc., along those lines.

Issandr jumps right on the "end the siege" demand, the blockade, in his comment, something Kirkpatrick didn't do:

Lifting the blockade would be unlikely to happen on the Israeli side, so it's essentially about the Egyptian side. Morsi did not want to be tackling this so early, and any solution will be quite complicated. He has not lifted the blockade thus far, although he could have, and that's because the Egyptian security establishment is nervous about being made responsible for Gaza — and the idea that the Israelis will just dump it on Egypt's lap and make Cairo responsible for it. Can't blame them on that.

I was thinking of razzing him with a question in comments "Why is it exactly that you can't blame them on that?" My Brothers keeper and all. Either you're Brothers/brothers, or you're not?

(Writing this comment brings to mind that Egyptian expat Ayman Al Zawshri wrote last week that he's ready with Caliphate instructions; should the Brothers change their minds about working within the infidel nation states system, he's ready and waiting.)