dagblog - Comments for ""What Can We Do to Stop Massacres?""

American citizens weren't to

Resistance — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 01:25:23 +0000

In reply to No offense taken. While I'm

American citizens weren't to keen about government intrusion into bank accounts either; it was forced upon us.

Maybe the government, should have spent more time going after the big players, like HSBC?

One can clearly see and understand, that the government of, by and for the banksters, would go after the little guy.

Forget that the HSBC was financing our enemies and when caught by the government, they had to only pay, a token penalty.

With Liberty and Justice for all? How about an equal opportunity, to turn a buck without the government, peering into our bank accounts, looking for a probable cause, circumventing the 4th Amendment.

No offense taken. While I'm

Michael Wolraich — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:54:00 +0000

In reply to I meant no disrespect. I'm

No offense taken. While I'm skeptical about the effectiveness of armed guards in stemming mass-shootings (at a macro level) for the reasons I've presented, a more effective arms tracking system is a welcome addition to the existing proposals. I'm seeing more discussion of that lately. The NYT endorsed it this morning.

The trick is to get gun rights supporters in Congress to abandon the NRA myth in which Big Brother takes away Americans' guns in order to establish totalitarianism. By law, banks have to report suspicious cash transactions to the feds, and no one thinks twice about it. But when it comes to guns, the NRA treats the flagging of potential criminal behavior as a dangerous infringement of the Second Amendment.

I meant no disrespect. I'm

demunchained — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:22:47 +0000

In reply to My comment was quite on

I meant no disrespect.

I'm having a hard time finding a more absurd scenario than this: 280 million guns in a nation with numerous mentally ill people with easy access to those guns, combined with a near total lack of security at our schools, universities and other public places.

I find the general lack of empathy with the victims concerning. It appears many are more concerned with how a course of action appears, how much it costs-- instead of protecting innocent people from armed madmen.

I'm interested in seeing other realistic solutions, given the obvious fact we're not going to get rid of our 280 million guns-- and whatever law (maybe) passed by congress won't be retroactive.

My comment was quite on

Michael Wolraich — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:39:00 +0000

In reply to I share your frustration, but

My comment was quite on track, thank you very much. It was not an outburst of frustration but a reductio ad absurdum critique of your position. As you yourself pointed out, killers seek out unguarded killing grounds, even parking lots. So guarding the schools may simply reroute the killers to public playgrounds and other "soft" locations. To stop massacres this way, you would have to guard every public gathering in the country, which is neither feasible nor desirable.

As for monitoring people who build an arsenal in their homes, I agreed in another thread that it's a good idea but illegal under current gun laws.

I share your frustration, but

demunchained — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:05:58 +0000

In reply to Where does it end? Security

I share your frustration, but let's not get off track here. we can discuss another time just how insane/absurd our nation has become overall and the reasons for that.

The key for now is there IS a pattern with these rampage killers.

The answer is an overwhelming yes.

We must have more/better security in public places, schools, universities, etc. and there must be monitoring/tracking of people who suddenly start building an arsenal in their homes and who are broadcasting their hate, anti-social baloney on line. the websites for this are easy to find.

The cost of the above is irrelevant, and the upside is this will create jobs which are badly needed.

As I've pointed out, congress just spent hundreds of billions on the fiascos in Iraq and Afghanistan-- all with absolutely no ROI for we the taxpayers.

Americans are not in danger from al Qaeda, we're threatened right here at home by domestic "terrorists".

Abortion clinics? Park

Resistance — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 17:59:11 +0000

In reply to Where does it end? Security

Abortion clinics? Park benches along a runners route?

A gun ban wouldn't have worked against Eric Rudolph, a bomber intent on killing.

No place is safe anymore.

Let the market decide, who'll get supported and which businesses will post a sign "Enter at your own risk"

I'd prefer to make sure my loved ones, go where security is taken seriously.

Better yet buy online.

Where does it end? After the end.

Where does it end? Security

Michael Wolraich — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:01:59 +0000

In reply to Huh? How many rampage

Where does it end? Security guards at theaters, schools, churches, playgrounds, malls (already have them but guess we need more), parking lots, playing fields, school buses, public buses, beaches, scenic overlooks, The Worlds Largest Ball of Yarn?

Correct. Further, had Sandy

demunchained — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:50:10 +0000

In reply to I'm not sure what the

Correct.

Further, had Sandy Hook had a long or even a short term practice of having 1-2 armed officers monitoring the school parking lot (not with cameras, I'm talking about standing there visibly watching what is going on) and adjacent street(s), I seriously doubt Lanza would have even planned his attack, let alone carry it out with deadly results/

Frankly, I think there's a pattern here; in addition to having an obvious mental problem, most of these rampage killers are attention whores. And/or they have a big axe to grind and want to "send a message" to whomever.

We have to remove potential public venues from being targeted by rampage killers; the best way to do that is the presence of armed security guards-- where they can be seen, and we need much better security facility-wise.

There's a reason why rampage killings are not occurring at football stadiums and airports.

Huh? How many rampage

demunchained — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:36:01 +0000

In reply to I honestly do not think

Huh?

How many rampage killings occurred at football/baseball stadiums this year? How many occurred at our airports?

Zero. that's because these public places have serious security systems in place-- both armed guards, camera systems, metal detectors.

Where did the rampage killings this year occur? A sikh temple, a movie theater, a school, a shopping mall... last year, Mr. Loughner attacked and killed people at a grocery store parking lot-- these are all places with little to no security system in place, no police presence.

Armed security is in fact a deterrent. The shooters are picking public places to carry out their dramatic attacks-- because they know there is little to no security at these particular places.

Agreed we need a

demunchained — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:00:55 +0000

In reply to I don't think the idea of

Agreed we need a multi-faceted approach, and that includes much better security systems/practices at places where large numbers of people gather-- which obviously have little to no security in place now-- and I contend that is one reason they are targeted by rampage killers such as "The Joker".

Note that he did not carry out his massacre at a Denver Rockies baseball game. That's because security is there, taken much more seriously than at movie theaters.

Your post overlooks the deterrent impact of visible, serious security. Had Sandy Hook Elementary School had 1-2 police officers monitoring the parking lot-- had this already been in place, I seriously doubt Lanza would have put together and carried out his plan.

Had he attempted to carry out his plan with armed officers in place, he would have been stopped before he shot through the door and entered the school.

Movie theaters, shopping malls, schools are easily targeted by rampage killers-- partly because the killers know from experience there is little to no security at these public places.