dagblog - Comments for "Barack Obama as Neville Chamberlain"

Speaking of accounting, I

Anonymous trope — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 22:55:44 +0000

Speaking of accounting, I spent some time counting the number of republicans in the house and there were more of them than Democrats. Stevens "capitulation" regarding the 13th amendment was done based on similar accounting.

Speaking of accounting, I

Anonymous trope — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 22:55:32 +0000

In reply to Right - forget the huge

Right - forget the huge

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 20:40:06 +0000

In reply to This is the kind of partisan

Right - forget the huge amount of revenue $ foregone, the amount of spending cuts to make up for that cash, the upcoming debt ceiling fight, and simply the loss of face and political power in seeing Obama blink yet again...

To you it's always some theoretical grudge match, not actual accounting.

I think that's the reason

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 19:53:47 +0000

In reply to Seems like that chunk between

I think that's the reason this proposal doesn't actually cut the deficit, which has ironically become the House conservatives' talking point.

Done

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 19:51:29 +0000

In reply to Whether you respect him or

Done

Seems like that chunk between

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 19:30:48 +0000

In reply to I think not using a Chained

Seems like that chunk between $250K and $450K is huge - perhaps 1/7th of tax in the tax bracket with most revenue - perhaps the segment generating 25% of total?

http://www.irs.gov/file_source/pub/irs-soi/08in03tr.xls

Table 4a. Returns with Modified Taxable Income [1]: Adjusted Gross Income and Tax Items, by Type of Tax Computation, by Size of Adjusted Gross Income, Tax Year 2008
(All figures are estimates based on samples—money amounts are in thousands of dollars, except where otherwise indicated)
Type of tax computation by size of adjusted gross income	Number of returns	Adjusted gross income less deficit	Modified taxable income	Income tax before credits, regular tax computation		Tax generated		Tax differences due to alternative computations	Taxes from special computation		Alternative minimum tax		Income tax before credits		Total tax credits		Income tax after credits		Total income tax
				Income tax before credits, regular tax computation		Tax generated			Taxes from special computation		Alternative minimum tax		Number of returns	Amount	Number of returns	Amount	Number of returns	Amount	Number of returns	Amount	As a percentage of		Average income tax (dollars)
				Number of returns	Amount	Number of returns	Amount		Number of returns	Amount	Number of returns	Amount									Modified taxable income	Adjusted gross income
				Number of returns	Amount	Number of returns	Amount		Number of returns	Amount	Number of returns	Amount									Modified taxable income	Adjusted gross income
	(1)	(2)	(3)	(4)	(5)	(6)	(7)	(8)	(9)	(10)	(11)	(12)	(13)	(14)	(15)	(16)	(17)	(18)	(19)	(20)	(21)	(22)	(23)
Returns with regular tax computation only
Total	85,418,967	4,561,162,471	2,889,223,853	85,418,967	473,562,743	85,418,967	473,097,069	0	* 6,826	* 5,770	1,308,693	4,380,327	85,418,967	477,483,165	43,657,703	49,378,990	69,829,212	428,104,175	69,829,212	428,104,175	14.8	9.4	5,012
Under $5,000	236,500	551,120	194,055	236,500	19,478	236,500	19,404	0	0	0	* 8	* 60	236,500	19,464	3,265	466	233,236	18,998	233,236	18,998	9.8	3.4	80
$5,000 under $10,000	2,917,315	23,287,890	4,588,356	2,917,315	459,345	2,917,315	459,345	0	0	0	* 652	* 197	2,917,315	459,542	574,586	30,444	2,349,939	429,098	2,349,939	429,098	9.4	1.8	147
$10,000 under $15,000	5,614,096	70,416,159	21,174,012	5,614,096	2,125,814	5,614,096	2,126,237	0	* 1,003	* 4,625	* 1,981	* 490	5,614,096	2,131,352	3,101,535	720,574	3,895,977	1,410,778	3,895,977	1,410,778	6.7	2.0	251
$15,000 under $20,000	7,027,612	123,573,515	45,904,838	7,027,612	4,817,528	7,027,612	4,817,338	0	0	0	* 2,901	* 1,938	7,027,612	4,819,276	4,537,422	1,579,005	4,853,375	3,240,271	4,853,375	3,240,271	7.1	2.6	461
$20,000 under $25,000	7,680,823	172,896,336	71,850,761	7,680,823	8,264,263	7,680,823	8,264,104	0	* 1,003	* 100	* 2,274	* 1,744	7,680,823	8,265,949	4,735,526	2,360,180	4,932,585	5,905,769	4,932,585	5,905,769	8.2	3.4	769
$25,000 under $30,000	7,365,426	202,131,395	95,688,414	7,365,426	11,471,896	7,365,426	11,471,248	0	* 1,003	* 110	0	0	7,365,426	11,471,359	4,251,393	3,128,157	4,743,816	8,343,202	4,743,816	8,343,202	8.7	4.1	1,133
$30,000 under $40,000	12,487,221	434,083,827	234,733,478	12,487,221	29,314,151	12,487,221	29,313,381	0	0	0	* 70	* 158	12,487,221	29,313,540	6,514,816	6,493,949	9,444,800	22,819,591	9,444,800	22,819,591	9.7	5.3	1,827
$40,000 under $50,000	9,272,315	415,343,053	246,998,655	9,272,315	32,846,119	9,272,315	32,839,834	0	0	0	* 2,334	* 4,177	9,272,315	32,844,011	4,546,402	6,018,002	7,874,381	26,826,009	7,874,381	26,826,009	10.9	6.5	2,893
$50,000 under $75,000	15,123,300	926,523,084	588,516,125	15,123,300	85,391,463	15,123,300	85,378,315	0	0	0	62,929	55,171	15,123,300	85,433,486	7,192,443	12,865,719	13,985,773	72,567,767	13,985,773	72,567,767	12.3	7.8	4,798
$75,000 under $100,000	8,456,976	729,852,412	493,867,464	8,456,976	74,832,354	8,456,976	74,797,592	0	0	0	82,967	119,273	8,456,976	74,916,865	4,425,169	8,937,796	8,303,649	65,979,069	8,303,649	65,979,069	13.4	9.0	7,802
$100,000 under $200,000	8,014,139	1,038,899,386	745,193,649	8,014,139	133,834,905	8,014,139	133,729,675	0	* 3,026	* 756	413,299	828,040	8,014,139	134,558,471	3,548,268	5,816,842	7,990,433	128,741,629	7,990,433	128,741,629	17.3	12.4	16,064
$200,000 under $500,000	1,098,597	297,839,001	233,125,118	1,098,597	55,788,059	1,098,597	55,650,548	0	* 790	* 178	696,215	2,933,165	1,098,597	58,583,892	192,015	677,674	1,096,829	57,906,217	1,096,829	57,906,217	24.8	19.4	52,709
$500,000 under $1,000,000	95,060	62,836,753	52,977,642	95,060	16,071,249	95,060	15,970,974	0	0	0	40,850	352,869	95,060	16,323,843	26,158	248,010	94,901	16,075,833	94,901	16,075,833	30.3	25.6	169,112
$1,000,000 under $1,500,000	15,957	19,213,324	16,707,608	15,957	5,433,800	15,957	5,420,468	0	0	0	1,489	34,466	15,957	5,454,934	4,628	97,423	15,929	5,357,511	15,929	5,357,511	32.1	27.9	335,747
$1,500,000 under $2,000,000	5,509	9,433,468	7,964,102	5,509	2,649,607	5,509	2,641,825	0	0	0	334	13,766	5,509	2,655,591	1,597	63,958	5,485	2,591,633	5,485	2,591,633	32.5	27.5	470,436
$2,000,000 under $5,000,000	6,674	19,060,292	16,444,100	6,674	5,608,387	6,674	5,580,683	0	0	0	343	20,115	6,674	5,600,797	1,964	101,958	6,658	5,498,839	6,658	5,498,839	33.4	28.8	823,920
$5,000,000 under $10,000,000	1,047	7,079,380	6,136,779	1,047	2,135,509	1,047	2,120,804	0	0	0	31	3,822	1,047	2,124,625	346	52,267	1,047	2,072,358	1,047	2,072,358	33.8	29.3	1,979,330
$10,000,000 or more	400	8,142,077	7,158,697	400	2,498,816	400	2,495,293	0	0	0	13	10,876	400	2,506,168	168	186,565	398	2,319,603	398	2,319,603	32.4	28.5	5,799,008
Returns with Form 8615 tax computation [2]
Total	384,095	5,133,946	4,365,648	384,095	823,259	384,095	797,121	-26,138	0	0	4,897	14,591	384,095	811,712	114,380	21,192	374,323	790,520	374,323	790,520	18.1	15.4	2,058
Under $5,000	181,088	608,301	436,525	181,088	41,116	181,088	52,159	11,043	0	0	0	0	181,088	52,159	40,613	1,511	172,622	50,648	172,622	50,648	11.6	8.3	280
$5,000 under $10,000	103,407	724,249	497,766	103,407	46,539	103,407	65,388	18,849	0	0	0	0	103,407	65,388	31,888	1,683	102,109	63,706	102,109	63,706	12.8	8.8	616
$10,000 under $15,000	45,353	544,208	410,221	45,353	43,279	45,353	65,234	21,955	0	0	* 652	* 16	45,353	65,251	14,700	1,066	45,353	64,185	45,353	64,185	15.6	11.8	1,415
$15,000 under $20,000	21,226	361,430	318,491	21,226	36,192	21,226	50,728	14,536	0	0	* 1,271	* 661	21,226	51,389	7,521	616	21,226	50,773	21,226	50,773	15.9	14.0	2,392
$20,000 under $25,000	7,965	174,411	152,786	7,965	19,721	7,965	26,603	6,882	0	0	0	0	7,965	26,603	* 4,337	* 284	7,965	26,319	7,965	26,319	17.2	15.1	3,304
$25,000 under $30,000	5,678	160,566	135,640	5,678	18,195	5,678	29,690	11,495	0	0	* 1,315	* 2,908	5,678	32,598	* 4,014	* 659	5,678	31,939	5,678	31,939	23.5	19.9	5,625
$30,000 under $40,000	5,522	188,180	156,967	5,522	21,844	5,522	36,744	14,900	0	0	0	0	5,522	36,744	* 2,256	* 1,536	5,522	35,207	5,522	35,207	22.4	18.7	6,376
$40,000 under $50,000	* 3,763	* 168,967	* 147,052	* 3,763	* 23,534	* 3,763	* 26,966	* 3,433	0	0	* 652	* 29	* 3,763	* 26,995	* 2,492	* 900	* 3,763	* 26,095	* 3,763	* 26,095	* 17.7	* 15.4	* 6,935
$50,000 under $75,000	* 4,543	* 271,664	* 279,601	* 4,543	* 46,467	* 4,543	* 52,195	* 5,729	0	0	* 435	* 3,632	* 4,543	* 55,827	* 2,613	* 289	* 4,543	* 55,539	* 4,543	* 55,539	* 19.9	* 20.4	* 12,225
$75,000 under $100,000	* 1,275	* 100,183	* 92,778	* 1,275	* 18,536	* 1,275	* 23,252	* 4,716	0	0	* 32	* 453	* 1,275	* 23,705	* 624	* 56	* 1,275	* 23,649	* 1,275	* 23,649	* 25.5	* 23.6	* 18,548
$100,000 under $200,000	* 2,529	* 351,460	* 291,135	* 2,529	* 60,303	* 2,529	* 64,362	* 4,059	0	0	* 315	* 3,948	* 2,529	* 68,310	* 1,912	* 251	* 2,529	* 68,059	* 2,529	* 68,059	* 23.4	* 19.4	* 26,911
$200,000 under $500,000	749	250,391	256,559	749	66,100	749	38,278	-27,822	0	0	* 136	* 531	749	38,809	709	1,087	* 742	* 37,722	* 742	* 37,722	14.7	15.1	50,363
$500,000 under $1,000,000	564	405,964	423,891	564	122,520	564	93,942	-28,578	0	0	* 8	* 40	564	93,982	367	2,639	564	91,343	564	91,343	21.5	22.5	161,956
$1,000,000 under $1,500,000	254	291,311	267,407	254	88,176	254	57,262	-30,914	0	0	* 74	* 1,957	254	59,219	205	1,809	253	57,410	253	57,410	21.5	19.7	226,024
$1,500,000 under $2,000,000	107	181,303	165,458	107	55,623	107	41,049	-14,574	0	0	0	0	107	41,049	* 75	* 3,419	107	37,630	107	37,630	22.7	20.8	351,682
$2,000,000 under $5,000,000	51	162,894	155,461	51	53,323	51	36,128	-17,195	0	0	* 3	* 79	51	36,207	* 38	* 377	51	35,830	51	35,830	23.0	22.0	702,549
$5,000,000 under $10,000,000	19	134,792	128,822	19	44,676	19	25,083	-19,593	0	0	** 4	** 336	19	25,356	13	484	19	24,872	19	24,872	19.3	18.5	1,309,053
$10,000,000 or more	* 3	* 53,671	* 49,088	* 3	* 17,116	* 3	* 12,058	* -5,059	0	0	**	**	* 3	* 12,120	* 3	* 2,526	* 3	* 9,594	* 3	* 9,594	* 19.5	* 17.9	* 3,198,000
Returns with Schedule D tax computation
Total	20,936,388	3,291,004,790	2,190,413,003	20,936,388	645,240,720	20,936,388	576,898,737	-68,341,983	* 1,799	* 3,766	2,495,351	17,745,760	20,936,388	594,648,263	11,158,504	18,234,713	20,068,594	576,413,550	20,068,595	576,413,756	26.3	17.5	27,532
Under $5,000	97,268	278,525	63,242	97,268	9,920	97,268	6,362	-3,558	0	0	0	0	97,268	6,362	16,129	337	92,920	6,025	92,920	6,025	9.5	2.2	62
$5,000 under $10,000	157,981	1,173,429	255,412	157,981	33,479	157,981	25,981	-7,499	0	0	0	0	157,981	25,981	29,459	744	152,046	25,237	152,046	25,237	9.9	2.2	160
$10,000 under $15,000	356,068	4,523,750	991,402	356,068	126,375	356,068	100,277	-26,099	0	0	* 652	* 521	356,068	100,798	149,749	23,266	284,683	77,531	284,683	77,531	7.8	1.7	218
$15,000 under $20,000	473,796	8,308,943	2,818,465	473,796	348,059	473,796	289,956	-58,103	0	0	0	0	473,796	289,956	255,517	76,239	406,872	213,716	406,872	213,716	7.6	2.6	451
$20,000 under $25,000	558,401	12,616,505	4,291,706	558,401	582,390	558,401	481,972	-100,418	0	0	0	0	558,401	481,972	264,374	87,972	482,634	394,000	482,634	394,000	9.2	3.1	706
$25,000 under $30,000	654,183	18,040,240	7,106,562	654,183	981,009	654,183	838,867	-142,142	0	0	* 1,977	* 2,388	654,183	841,255	306,738	117,913	571,926	723,343	571,926	723,343	10.2	4.0	1,106
$30,000 under $40,000	1,450,106	50,953,001	24,264,597	1,450,106	3,373,755	1,450,106	2,989,328	-384,427	0	0	* 1,302	* 2,251	1,450,106	2,991,578	690,737	353,420	1,290,383	2,638,158	1,290,383	2,638,158	10.9	5.2	1,819
$40,000 under $50,000	1,542,995	69,471,581	37,752,615	1,542,995	5,478,539	1,542,995	4,981,523	-497,015	0	0	* 1,247	* 5,043	1,542,995	4,986,566	764,177	515,470	1,415,331	4,471,096	1,415,331	4,471,096	11.8	6.4	2,898
$50,000 under $75,000	3,827,165	238,776,606	143,789,385	3,827,165	23,533,636	3,827,165	21,753,685	-1,779,951	* 1,621	* 2,835	4,213	6,286	3,827,165	21,762,806	1,937,815	1,881,768	3,641,548	19,881,038	3,641,548	19,881,038	13.8	8.3	5,195
$75,000 under $100,000	3,151,460	273,457,579	176,125,593	3,151,460	29,729,011	3,151,460	27,752,147	-1,976,865	* 141	* 801	21,353	39,294	3,151,460	27,792,242	1,799,855	2,145,244	3,095,815	25,646,998	3,095,815	25,646,998	14.6	9.4	8,138
$100,000 under $200,000	5,672,903	783,623,260	542,858,507	5,672,903	109,532,567	5,672,903	104,793,647	-4,738,920	* 31	* 127	426,171	1,024,947	5,672,903	105,818,721	3,260,948	3,576,293	5,644,225	102,242,428	5,644,225	102,242,428	18.8	13.0	18,023
$200,000 under $500,000	2,280,189	665,613,273	484,901,296	2,280,189	132,491,571	2,280,189	124,679,561	-7,812,010	* 6	* 3	1,711,196	10,198,618	2,280,189	134,878,182	1,201,072	1,856,619	2,277,427	133,021,563	2,277,428	133,021,563	27.4	20.0	58,338
$500,000 under $1,000,000	451,937	308,430,371	227,032,986	451,937	80,228,774	451,937	73,322,123	-6,906,651	0	0	264,492	3,291,593	451,937	76,613,716	291,480	1,206,016	451,244	75,407,700	451,244	75,407,765	33.2	24.4	166,855
$1,000,000 under $1,500,000	114,410	138,081,370	99,105,694	114,410	39,118,095	114,410	34,971,365	-4,146,731	0	0	30,849	759,211	114,410	35,730,575	79,709	718,617	114,270	35,011,959	114,270	35,011,959	35.3	25.4	306,022
$1,500,000 under $2,000,000	48,813	84,037,419	59,287,300	48,813	24,658,726	48,813	21,741,025	-2,917,701	0	0	11,069	351,040	48,813	22,092,065	35,258	418,163	48,745	21,673,902	48,745	21,673,902	36.6	25.8	444,019
$2,000,000 under $5,000,000	70,666	210,875,738	143,973,871	70,666	63,822,855	70,666	55,165,147	-8,657,708	0	0	15,187	791,661	70,666	55,956,808	52,828	1,461,677	70,548	54,495,130	70,548	54,495,271	37.9	25.8	771,167
$5,000,000 under $10,000,000	17,402	118,927,039	75,323,812	17,402	36,928,071	17,402	30,660,333	-6,267,738	0	0	3,465	359,912	17,402	31,020,245	13,751	863,282	17,359	30,156,963	17,359	30,156,963	40.0	25.4	1,732,960
$10,000,000 or more	10,647	303,816,161	160,470,557	10,647	94,263,888	10,647	72,345,441	-21,918,447	0	0	2,178	912,996	10,647	73,258,436	8,909	2,931,672	10,619	70,326,764	10,619	70,326,764	43.8	23.1	6,605,313

Guardian: .....while it's

NCD — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 18:50:57 +0000

In reply to Barack Obama as Neville Chamberlain

Guardian:

.....while it's possible that Obama threw away his leverage by reaching an agreement and compromising on the baseline for tax increases, it's also true that he locked in a series of (stimulative) policy measures he might not have gotten if he done nothing.

Was it worth risking austerity policies that squeeze the middle class simply to lock in even higher tax revenues? Perhaps......when you're dealing with House Republicans, who could have very easily passed a tax cut bill after going over the cliff that ignored EITC or unemployment insurance, or even set the tax threshold at $500,000 and dared Democrats in the Senate to block it, I find it very difficult to criticize the president too harshly....Obama went with the bird-in-hand of a certain deal. Arguing that he could have gotten a better agreement had he held out sounds reasonable, but it ignores the potential obstacles in dealing with a political party that has no interest in the plight of working people or the responsibilities that come with running a large country....

This is the kind of partisan

Anonymous Trope — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 18:30:19 +0000

In reply to Barack Obama as Neville Chamberlain

This is the kind of partisan sentiment that has created the gridlock in DC. Obama wanted 250K, the other side didn't want to tax anyone regardless of amount. Then some on the moderate conservative side proposed just those who make a million or more. They ended up with 400K.

Some would call the give and take of negotiations. But to those stuck in trenches of partisan warfare it is appeasement.

The incoming congress will be

demunchained — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 13:38:32 +0000

In reply to Happy New Year. I hope a

The incoming congress will be significantly better than the outgoing?

Uhhhh.....

I think not using a Chained

Michael Maiello — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 08:38:42 +0000

In reply to Barack Obama as Neville Chamberlain

I think not using a Chained CPI on Social Security was a victory, though I can't imagine why Obama brought it up in the first place. Hopefully it was as an offer meant to be cut, like a nasty scene that a movie-maker shows the MPAA and then cuts to go from NC-17 to R.

Not settling the debt ceiling now was a huge mistake. But, I'm not sure how you make a crazed opposition settle that. They went into default mode once already.

As for unemployment benefits and the like being temporary while tax rates for those under $400,000 are now permanent... What we want is an improving economy where unemployment benefits become less of an issue. This might help us towards that. As for the difference between $250,000 and $400,000 in terms of marginal tax rates... yes, some mini-tycoons found a teeny tiny break. But, whatever. It's the real big tycoons that we need to tax.