dagblog - Comments for "How Not to Rape My Daughter"

I mean no disrespect but

Richard Day — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:29:57 +0000

In reply to The "she has to like you and

I mean no disrespect but after reading this all I could think of was one of my favorite songs.

And I have a daughter.

Condom on fruit classes?

The "she has to like you and

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:27:16 +0000

In reply to Oops, I just saw this after

The "she has to like you and know you" part is kinda not even 1960's. Yeah, probably a nice idea, like "be home by 10". Little to do with rape. Hey parents, sometimes your daughter likes the mean, I-don't-care type, whether it's rebellion or sincere lust.

Drinking a lot shouldn't be invitation to rape. Guys can go out and drink till stupid typically with a near certainty no one's going to pork them while unconscious, but women often don't have that luxury - even when with "good friends".

Verbalize about sex? Many people of either sex only know how to joke about it, not say anything real, at least not until comfortable with each other after many bouts of sex. Some after decades of marriage. Will that change? Perhaps a bit over decades. Yeah, condom on fruit classes may have broken the ice a little bit.

I didn't say they weren't

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:18:34 +0000

In reply to Yes, you've correctly

I didn't say they weren't autonomous, thanks, and I just noted cultural trends. Sex tourism is an equal phenomenon for both sexes, or for satisfying primarily male urges?

A group like Femen doesn't show its tits because of autonomous sexuality - it does it because society doesn't give a shit what women say unless they show their tits, so they're accepting reality and doing an in-your-face action.

Preventing pregnancy is almost always put on the woman, especially with the assumption she can just take the pill or use an IUD. Or get an abortion if things go poorly. How many guys even realize there are long-term health problems with the pill? Oops, guess most women also don't know they cause cancer et al.

When the black community started chastising young men about taking responsibility for sex & pregnancy, were they just dealing with "assumptions", or noting the trend that 72% of black children are raised in single parent homes? And that in many of these cases, men are providing no care for their kids. Yes, both parents created the baby, both probably wanted sex (though I still claim frequently a bit more for the guy), but usually the girl gets to deal with most of the real decisions & consequences.

Oops, I just saw this after

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:10:09 +0000

In reply to Ok so I am modifying my

Oops, I just saw this after responding above. If the mother in the video had said what you just wrote--that boys should make absolutely sure that the girl consents--I would fully support it. What troubles me is that she did not say that. Instead, she that a boy should not have sex with a girl who has been drinking, who is a stranger, who does not like him (whatever that means), or who did not say explicitly, "I want to have intercourse with you." Of these, only the last really addresses the making-sure part. The rest just oblige the boy to presume to make choices for the girl that she may not have actually made.

Yes, you've correctly

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:51:21 +0000

In reply to I didn't much like the video,

Yes, you've correctly presented longstanding assumptions about male/female sexuality. But one of the accomplishments of the feminist movement was to challenge those assumptions--to help society recognize that women are autonomous sexual creatures just like men.

It's not the condescension

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:42:03 +0000

In reply to Yes, of course it's directed

It's not the condescension towards minors that bothers me. It's the condescension towards girls. I meant patriarchal as in male-dominated society, not parent-dominated.

The message in the video was absolutely a message about sexual responsibility--don't mix sex and alcohol, don't have sex with strangers, etc. Classic parental sermon. The only odd thing about it, what turned it into a rape message, was that the speaker obliged boys to make responsible decisions on behalf of irresponsible girls. She didn't say "Don't have sex unless you're sober and care about her." She said to the boy, "Don't have sex unless the girl is sober and cares about you." The implication is that the boy has autonomy to make bad decisions, but the girl does not. It presents boys as lusty devils who are obliged to restrain libidos and girls as helpless creatures who succumb to their will. And that's positively Victorian.

Ok so I am modifying my

erica20 — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:01:22 +0000

In reply to How Not to Rape My Daughter

Ok so I am modifying my earlier somewhat indignant reply to Michael. (I'm going to leave it up there, though. What the heck...)

I was trying to figure out this patriarchy/condescending piece, and here's my best guess for the moment.

I think that what we humans do during sex needs to be looked at separately from the decision to consent to having sex. All kinds of human transactions happen after the consent is granted, and nobody wants to meddle there (!) but the law understands that the transaction that starts things off needs to be a fair one, and it extends special protection for those whose age, state of mind or smaller physical stature might put them at a disadvantage. This is what people mean when they say that rape isn't about sex, it's about power. Those who don't understand that the initial transaction has to be an equal one, or ignore this truth, are the ones who rape.

Except for the extremely religious among us, we now accept that people who aren't married and are younger than 18 might be interested in learning about, and hopefully enjoying, sexual contact, but the question of how then to guarantee that the consent is in place becomes more of a challenge. Girls certainly aren't the only people who can be raped, but when these situations present themselves, girls are the ones most likely to find themselves unable to consent and with few choices about where to go from there.

Hence, the cautions to boys to make absolutely sure that the consent is really there.

(A possibly unrelated note: if the Steubenville roles were reversed and girls had done the same things to a boy that were done to the girl in this case, they would be equally guilty.)

I didn't much like the video,

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:50:10 +0000

In reply to Does this not strike anyone

I didn't much like the video, but I'd guess boys are much more responsible for unwanted pregnancies than girls - I seem to recall boys pushing more for early sex than girls - and since the pill boys have had much less to think about - he shoots! He scores! it's all the girl's fault if she didn't pick the right contraceptive... in the end she gets all the tough decisions and responsibilities unless he chooses to help out. Some fair deal, eh?

And the reality is, guys are much more likely to dive into drunk girl's pants than the other way around. And rape is overwhelmingly tilted towards rape of females, aside from prison, and even that's by guys. Sure, some things have changed, but not that much.

Yes, of course it's directed

erica20 — Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:35:12 +0000

In reply to Does this not strike anyone

Yes, of course it's directed at minors. Never mind honor, kids of both sexes have a right to maintain their status as kids, and it's the job of adults to try to make sure it goes ok for them. (I guess in some senses, it is patriarchal/matriarchal, but it's a parent's JOB to go out of the way to help their kids make the transition to adulthood in ways that maintain their safety and self-esteem, not to mention keeping them out of jail. The law agrees.)

And, this isn't really a discussion of responsible or irresponsible sex, it's about rape. We're not talking about the myriad of good or poor sexual choices that can be made by people who know that they're well on the other side of the rape bright line. We're talking about people who need to understand that some of what their bodies and their buddies tell them is OK, is actually illegal.

Anybody who's offended by the patriarchal, condescending nature of the material can immediately set about lobbying to make it legal to have sex with a young person without his/her full consent, leaving it up to the people themselves to make their own decisions and bear the consequences without the benefit of legal redress. But I personally think that would be a step backward.

Does this not strike anyone

Michael Wolraich — Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:41:00 +0000

In reply to How Not to Rape My Daughter

Does this not strike anyone else as patriarchal and condescending towards women? It reminds me of the days when "young ladies" were treated as delicate half-rational creatures whose honor must be protected.

Can a woman not choose to have sex with a man she barely knows? Cannot she not be trusted to make her own decisions after one cocktail? (And yet the man is still responsible for his of course.)

Perhaps this video is directed at minors, though that's not clear to me. That might explain the condescension. But if so, why is it directed only at the boy? Shouldn't both children get the lecture on responsible sex?

As a teenager, I was once "caught" by a cop while messing around in a parked car. The cop took me aside and lectured me about the risk of unwanted pregnancy. My girlfriend was offended. Why didn't she get the lecture too? If she'd seen this video back then, I bet her reaction would have been much the same.