dagblog - Comments for "Independence Day: We do Have Something to Celebrate"

Ah, Emma, thanks. It's still

Ramona — Sun, 07 Jul 2013 01:40:51 +0000

In reply to I meant to tell you earlier

Ah, Emma, thanks. It's still the holiday weekend so you're right on time.

I meant to tell you earlier

EmmaZahn — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 21:05:32 +0000

In reply to Independence Day: We do Have Something to Celebrate

I meant to tell you earlier how much I enjoyed this essay. It was like a bright spring flower in a dreary winter landscape.

Well, as they say, better late than never, I hope.

How is big business

Aaron Carine — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 05:29:42 +0000

In reply to Independence Day: We do Have Something to Celebrate

How is big business anti-American? I don't think the Founders objected to importing goods into the country. And the affluent didn't have less power at the beginning of the Republic; there was a property qualification for voting.

Actually, I'm hoping the left

Verified Atheist — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 22:40:55 +0000

In reply to To the contrary, my friend.

Actually, I'm hoping the left side wins!

To the contrary, my friend.

Michael Wolraich — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 22:14:14 +0000

In reply to Hi, Michael, I hope you're

To the contrary, my friend. The divided house has actually enabled progress. Imagine yourself as an antebellum plantation owner. Surely you would have been upset about those fanatical abolitionists stirring up trouble in Kansas. Or put yourself in the shoes of a 19th century railroad baron, seething about those populist demagogues fomenting class conflict in...uh...Kansas again.

When you complain about division, I think you really mean opposition. After all, if we were all Tea Partiers, the nation would be quite harmonious, but that would not exactly improve the outlook for the nation.

So I say here's to division. Let's just hope that the right side wins. Happy 4th!

Hi, Michael, I hope you're

Ramona — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 21:02:55 +0000

In reply to Happy 4th, Mona! Not to

Hi, Michael, I hope you're having a lovely day. I sometimes wish I could just wallow in my own hyperbolic ruminations without having to look out for fact-checkers, but I need to remember that this is dagblog and not my own kitchen--or wherever.

But I do appreciate the history lesson.

I think I said "since the days of the Civil War", which sorta leaves out those years pre-1861. Still, you're right -- there have been some nasty folks causing all kinds of consternation in the past. I'm not sure I believe those divisions were as destructive to us all as the one we're experiencing here in the 21st century. There were certain of us that suffered because our government leaders couldn't come to terms with the "We, the People" part of the bargain, but, even considering FDR's battles, most of us were able to look forward to lives that were better than those who came before us. We won't have that for a long time coming -- if ever -- and I blame it on this house divided.

But, damn. . .it's the Fourth of July and I'm going back out to celebrate.

Happy 4th, Mona! Not to

Michael Wolraich — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 20:11:00 +0000

In reply to Independence Day: We do Have Something to Celebrate

Happy 4th, Mona! Not to dispute your message, but your history is off. You write,

We are as divided as we've ever been since the days of our Civil War, 150 years ago. We cannot, it seems, find common ground. We see our America through different eyes, with different fears and different goals.

Please pardon me if I'm misinterpreting, but I read you as suggesting that our Blue state / Red state discord is an exception to 237 of relative harmony, excluding the Civil War of course. Certainly, many people seem to share this misconception.

In fact, the political harmony of the late 20th century was the exception. Most of American history has been characterized by fierce internal divisions far, far worse than today.

The oldest split was between North and South. It began well before 1776 and continued from the first days of the Republic to the Civil Rights era. Race was only one part of that division. The 19th century battles over federal tariffs were much more passionate and ferocious than the abortion and gay marriage issues that divide us today. The cultural differences were also much more extreme before the days of mass transit and mass media. In fact, I would argue that the North and South are more alike and get along better today than ever before in American history.

But there were other divisions too. In the early 20th century, the Progressive movement split western agricultural states from eastern manufacturing states. The conservative easterners thought that the westerners were loony radicals and socialists. The progressive westerners thought that the easterners were corrupt plutocrats. It was as if you reversed the modern political map and stuck the Tea Parties in Manhattan and Occupy Wall Street in Kansas. And man did they hate each other.

In fact, the modern era is relatively unusual in only two ways:

1) The split is almost exactly 50-50. In a system with many checks and balances, that makes it extremely difficult for either side to pass any significant legislation.

2) The parties are unified. In other eras, it was more common for the major parties to include progressive and conservative factions, which increased the possibility of legislative compromises.

These attributes have rendered our contemporary government particularly ineffective, but I think it's important to recognize that it's not because we as a people are more divided than we were during some mythical golden era of post-Revolutionary harmony. The United States has always been more an ideal than a reality.

At some point during the day,

rmrd0000 — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 18:36:48 +0000

In reply to Independence Day: We do Have Something to Celebrate

At some point during the day, many Blacks think about Frederick Douglass' speech posing the the question what does the Fourth of adult mean to Blacks. There tends to be more activity around Juneteenth than around the Fourth as far as celebrations go. Today in the wake of attempts to keep blacks from voting, the a fourth is viewed with mixed feelings. It is a day that reminds us that we need to strive for a better future. All of us realize that we have a lot of work to do. There are forces that wish to suppress the rights of minorities, women and Gays while arguing for more individual freedom for themselves. Reflection and barbecue today. The struggle continues tomorrow. Have a great Fourth of July. It is a great time to be alive.

Yeah, a really nice read! Oh

Richard Day — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 18:15:30 +0000

In reply to Independence Day: We do Have Something to Celebrate

Yeah, a really nice read!

Oh and I love that cartoon!

Great read, Ramona! Thanks!

Doctor Cleveland — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 17:13:34 +0000

In reply to Independence Day: We do Have Something to Celebrate

Great read, Ramona! Thanks!