dagblog - Comments for "This makes some compelling reading AGAINST bombing Syria"

Barack Obama should have his

Orion — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 04:53:54 +0000

In reply to This makes some compelling reading AGAINST bombing Syria

Barack Obama should have his Nobel Peace Prize repealed and given to Morgan Tsvangirai, the non violent opposition leader in Zimbabwe who was passed over.

Thanks for putting it up.

artappraiser — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 02:35:13 +0000

In reply to Thanks for the comments

Thanks for putting it up. It's good to learn what some of these lauded conflict resolution people actually do and think. They are not all equal skill sets and smarts, far from it (just like elected leaders?)

some are fleeing the Jihadist

artappraiser — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 02:27:18 +0000

In reply to She also quotes refugees in

some are fleeing the Jihadist fanatics

I want to make my position clear on that. As a proud feminist daughter of Western culture, reading about them makes me sick to my stomach, they are my personal ideological enemy. I know from previous interaction that you are of similar mind with me on some of this, but I betcha anything I hate them more than you do.

There's an excellent "boots on the ground" report right now @ The New Yorker that gives them a pretty fair shake

"Among Syria’s Islamist Fighters" posted by Rania Abouzeid

and doesn't omit "the foreigners," including the feared Chechens (yes, I know Mr. Putin, I get it. I'd beg on my hands and knees to live under The Putin rather than live under their rule.) And it still gave me the creeps.

And I don't buy the John Kerry et. al. argument that it will be easy for the moderates to get rid of them. That's bull.

It's kind of an absurd situation where the argument is to stop the use of chemical weapons you will allow these guys from allover the Islamic world to try their reign of terror here and there--a recent example:

"Syrian Christian Village, Besieged By Jihadists"
By Sohaib Enjrainy Translated from As-Safir (Lebanon) @ AL Monitor

until you hit them with drones. Drones vs. chemical weapons, that's where all this takes us. Lovely.

Actually, the hook that drew me in away from pure isolationism on the Syria situation was the French stance. If the country with the biggest ant-jihadi bonafides (mho, and that's going back to pre 9/11) think it's important to do something about Assad's use of chemical weapons, who am I to challenge the wisdom?

She also quotes refugees in

NCD — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 01:28:27 +0000

In reply to This makes some compelling reading AGAINST bombing Syria

She also quotes refugees in Lebanon saying:

...foreign fighters came to Homs, they took over their homes, raped their women, and killed young males who refused to join their ranks, so the people fled in terror...

For the 2 million who have left Syria it appears at least some are fleeing the Jihadist fanatics.

Thanks for the comments

Peter Schwartz — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 01:15:50 +0000

In reply to This makes some compelling reading AGAINST bombing Syria

Thanks for the comments everyone...and links, AA.

Maguire quotes and my

artappraiser — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 00:49:30 +0000

In reply to This makes some compelling reading AGAINST bombing Syria

Maguire quotes and my thoughts.

....We met with the Syrian Prime Minister and 7 other government ministers, and we were assured that the Government did not use sarin gas on its own people, and they invited the UN to send in inspectors to see what was happening....

Oooh she makes them sound like such nice reasonable people. Make me wonder who actually did all the killing of civilians with conventional weapons before this happened and chased a third of the population out of the country. It just couldn't have been them.

The Assad regime is expert at this crap, presenting an illusion of we-are-nice-people normality:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/09/assads-bizarre-ins...

She argues

Currently there is an International Commission of Inquiry on Chemical Weapons in Damascus staying at Four Seasons Hotel, which is less than ten minutes from the areas where the chemical weapons were allegedly used....

Nobody with any sense still thinks the use of chemical weapons in Damascus suburbs is something "alleged." The disagreement is about who may have used them and/or how their use happened. She doesn't appear to have much knowledge about how the delivery of chemical weapons has been developed in Syria in order to target small areas--that's without blaming any party for their use.

The more I look at Maguire's part of this essay, the more whole thing starts to rile me as the sort of naive kumbaya stuff that has given being a peacenik a bad name. I am not impressed. Makes me wonder about the sense and quality of the humanitarian organizations and that conflict resolution organizations that she recommends. This, for example, is what has been happening to some of the Mussalaha group that she recommends:

http://australiansforreconciliationinsyria.wordpress.com/mussalaha-martyrs/

Making great progress at ending the violence, eh, are ya?

Also, along with the Obama Peace Prize, really makes me wonder about how far the quality of Nobel Committee members might have fallen.

I was finding myself

artappraiser — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 00:20:17 +0000

In reply to Maguire seems to accept

I was finding myself sometimes falling for some of the Assad/Putin narrative from time to time after reading a lot of stuff. And then I just got a slap upside the head by Jon Lee Anderson's blog post at the New Yorker today:

Putin and the Syria Conspiracy-Theory Problem

Highly recommend for that reason.

One can easily still be against intervention for many other excellent reasons without falling for all the self-serving crap and games of ruthless dictatorial types or those who, like Putin, wish to see them maintain ruthless control for their own motives.

Yeah, blaming civil wars (or

Verified Atheist — Fri, 06 Sep 2013 23:27:12 +0000

In reply to Maguire seems to accept

Yeah, blaming civil wars (or even just unrest) on foreigners is definitely the modus operandi across the Middle East it seems. (I'm not claiming that they have exclusive rights to that MO, though.)

Maguire seems to accept

Aaron Carine — Fri, 06 Sep 2013 21:07:44 +0000

In reply to This makes some compelling reading AGAINST bombing Syria

Maguire seems to accept Assad's version of events. "50,000 foreign fighters in Syria"? That is about way higher than other estimates I've heard. She cites Syrian officials saying the government's violence was "self-defense" and she doesn't challenge this.