dagblog - Comments for "Merkel's Cell Phone and the Black Guy"

If your vote were useless,

rmrd0000 — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 11:51:50 +0000

If your vote were useless, the Republicans would not be expending the effort to suppress it. Voting in different legislators and judges opens an opportunity to change the restrictions. Change can occur in North Carolina if voters turn out in 2014. There is no rationale for not voting given the disastrous effects we have seen with a GOP Governor and legislatures.

At a grass roots level, school board elections and elections for judges, etc have impact. Just as North Carolina can be changed, so can Texas. Wendy Davis may not win in Texas, but a good turn out May wind up electing fewer Texas wingnuts.

if you stay home, the GOP can remain entrenched.

Vote suppression and

Anonymous PP — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 05:37:11 +0000

In reply to Those in favor of voting do

Vote suppression and gerrymandering are 2 efforts to make sure your vote is useless. If candidates ignore your views unless you're in a swing state/tight district/needed demographic group, your vote is pretty useless as well. That doesn't mean fighting for voting rights is useless, but the benefits of voting have been weakened.

Funny you'd use that example

Anonymous PP — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 05:31:25 +0000

In reply to Can you point out where I was

Funny you'd use that example - we're continuing Bush's policies 5 years after he left office, his tax cuts are mostly permanent, Gitmo's still in business, the Ryan budget is now the basis for our fiscal discussions, and only Bush's SS privatization is scoffed at (but not "fixing it"). I'd say Bush was pretty damn clever. Note: I was never proclaiming not voting as the best strategy - only respecting those who used it as a tool.

The benefits of voting are

ocean-kat — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:56:42 +0000

In reply to Voting has been going on

The benefits of voting are absolutely clear given the direction government is taking us. Women are losing the right to choose, unions are losing power with right to work laws etc, there's more millionaires and billionaires funding republican candidates due to citizens united, the supreme court is increasingly conservative. Republicans in the house are so scared of the vote they shutdown the government and nearly defaulted on the debt even though they knew it was stupid and self destructive.

The direction of government doesn't show voting is useless. It just shows what happens when my side loses the vote.

The problem you're facing

ocean-kat — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:51:58 +0000

In reply to You do understand that people

The problem you're facing isn't that the government doesn't respond to the vote. It does and there is plenty of historical evidence of it. The tea party demonstrates one example of how to get the government to respond. The problem you're facing is you're losing, so am I, though I think we disagree on what would constitute winning.

You're searching for an answer to this question: How can I win when I keep losing the vote? You think the answer is, stop voting. Unfortunately that answer will just cause you to lose faster.

You can engage in an exercise in futility, don't vote, and pretend you're engaged in a proactive assault on the government. Or you can do the hard work of the activist, demonstrations, protests, outreach, education, until you convince enough people to win the vote.

Can you point out where I was

Verified Atheist — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:42:18 +0000

In reply to Voting has been going on

Can you point out where I was bragging about the benefits of voting? All I'm claiming is that voting is better than not voting, which is an incredibly low bar. Claiming to be smarter than Stephen Hawking would be bragging, claiming to be smarter than Bush would not be.

(Also, what Rm said about Virginia. I'm going to do as much as I can to make sure that all of my friends and neighbors get out to vote Tuesday, as we absolutely cannot afford to have Cuccinelli as Governor.)

Those in favor of voting do

AnonymousRm — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 19:23:51 +0000

In reply to Voting has been going on

Those in favor of voting do see reasons given the concrete evidence of vote suppression, abuse of women's rights, cutting of programs like food stamps, etc by the GOP. People will turn up at the polls in 2014 to prevent more wingnuts from getting elected. These issues, including failing to act on immigration issues may not be of importance to you, but they are to others.

One on has presented evidence where failing to vote resulted in a positive outcome. If the Democrat in Virginia beats the wingnut candidate for Governor, peoplewill see that as a positive outcome. Staying at home and letting the wingnut win to demonstrate disgust would be viewed as a negative outcome.

At the end of the dy e have a proposal not to vote as a means of showing disgust. We are not shown where the tactic has worked successfully in the US. The response to questions about not voting has been "Trust us, we think it will work....eventually". We are also tol that third party canidates are being suppressed by Democrats, but we are not told who these viable third party candidates might be. A vaporware voting sit-out campaign along with imaginary third party candidates from people who don't vote.

Voting has been going on

Anonymous pp — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 18:55:09 +0000

In reply to No one has yet offered a

Voting has been going on since well before I was born, and I've never seen Democratic candidates as resistant to progressive ideas or even the idea that activists should push their own issues. Bucking the democratic leadership by fielding your own primary candidate? Blasphemy.

I wouldn't be bragging too much about the benefits of voting - unless of course you're happy with the direction government is taking us.

No one has yet offered a

Verified Atheist — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 16:56:18 +0000

In reply to You do understand that people

No one has yet offered a better idea of how to begin this process and relying on the failed, defensive tools of the past dooms us to more failure.

Perhaps not, but you've managed to offer a worse way — not voting. Not voting does absolutely nothing to take power away or "to avoid the widespread violence that revolutions can bring". Not voting is not "creative". As ocean-kat has pointed out, not voting has been going on since well before you were born. Voting might carry little influence, and voting for a third party or write-in candidate might carry less, but not voting carries the least influence of all.

You do understand that people

Peter — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 16:36:17 +0000

In reply to No, its not a legal question.

You do understand that people look to activism and demonstrations because our political system doesn't respond to or represent them no matter how many may vote. Even these alternate means of demanding attention have been reduced to mere pressure releases while they are either ignored, co-opted or met with violent suppression. Many people seem to still believe that by playing by the rules, dictated by the powerful, the PTB will surrender their control and allow people to rule themselves. Our rulers will never give up their power, it will have to be taken from them and to avoid the widespread violence that revolutions can bring we need to seek creative ways to dismember their power structures. No one has yet offered a better idea of how to begin this process and relying on the failed, defensive tools of the past dooms us to more failure.