dagblog - Comments for "Don't Feed the Trolls, and Other Advice For Dealing With Libertarians"

I did read it, but this

Donal — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:49:33 +0000

In reply to Hi Mike Let me count all the

I did read it, but this sounded more interesting:

Found: Libertarians' "Lying To Liberals" Guide Book

What hasn't been revealed until now, however, is how the libertarians got so good at fooling their lefty marks. For that you have to look back 35 years, to an amazing series of articles in the Koch brothers' REASON magazine in which prominent libertarians lay out to a new generation of followers a playbook of "tricks" to fool earnest leftists, liberals and hippies into supporting their cause.

Hi Mike Let me count all the

tmccarthy0 — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:37:46 +0000

In reply to I don't really share this

Hi Mike

Let me count all the ways in which you are wrong. You think Libertarians care about civil liberties, well unless you count women of course. Most Libertarians do not believe that women have the right to make decisions for their own bodies, therefore, they do not believe in basic civil liberties of the individual. The problem with Libertarians is that by and large they are men, young men, who really just care about themselves, and not other people at all.

I will never in a million years consider those people my allies. Oh and let's not discuss their abhorrent views on helping the poor, because they would once again they are exposed as overly privileged boys who care only about themselves. Let's not discuss how Libertarians have aligned themselves with white supremists and other disgusting people. And yet they still won't align themselves with women and the right to have a say over our own bodies. Oh let me just say this one more time, never in a million years will I ever align myself with them. I would stand with Max Fucking Baucus before I stood with them.

Libertarians, they just aren't a bunch of folks I can ever respect. And I will unlock this piece as NSFWCorp one more time so you can read exactly why these people cannot be trusted. You have 47 hours to read it, I hope you will.

The question is...does it

Peter Schwartz — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:24:26 +0000

In reply to Don't Feed the Trolls, and Other Advice For Dealing With Libertarians

The question is...does it make sense, or is it really possible, to cherry pick the libertarian or Paulian position one likes and discard the rest?

My answer has been no.

If you look at Paul you'll find, I think, that those positions with which progressives agree are consequences of the positions with which progressives disagree.

So, his principal method for keeping military adventuring in check is by going onto the gold standard. If you can't print money, you won't have the money for foreign adventures. But you won't have money for a lot of other things, too, like all the safety net programs, which he doesn't mind at all.

In fact, he would work to get rid of safety net programs because he, and libertarians in general, regard them as unconstitutional. Not just bad, not just unafffordable, but unlawful.

So, for example, Paul has written a book on ending the Fed, but has he written a book on legalizing consensual "crimes"? He talks about it, and he hooks people that way, but what is his real interest? I would submit that it's gold.

Moreover, he sidesteps a number of issues like abortion and same-sex marriage, which he punts to the state level. This is not just because he wants to sidestep potentially explosive issues (courageous fellow that he is) but because he believes in outlawing at least the first of these acts. Letting the states do the outlawing is his way of sweeping the problem under the rug.

It's also worth noting that fringe candidates can always get away with taking more "daring" positions; they have very little to lose. So I'm always a little skeptical of their positions. When there's little at stake, it's easy to hold any position. Even sincerely hold those position. My cat sincerely believes in same-sex marriage and, believe it or not, has scratched out a position paper on it. Should we support her for president?

When young, a large

artappraiser — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:13:08 +0000

In reply to Don't Feed the Trolls, and Other Advice For Dealing With Libertarians

When young, a large contingent of my generation didn't like the liberal vision of people like Hubert Humphrey much either. Not fans of the wholesome Peace Corps folk singers campaigning for him, but rather, Abby Hoffman et. al. I think he's underestimating the radicalism of youth factor. I suspect those types are mainly the ones acting trollish. Because it's heady and fun and exciting to counterculture the status quo. (Remember IronBoltBruce? I wouldn't describe him as a "young Republican" type beyond that he believed he could make money doing P.R. for libertarian views.)

Nope.

Michael Maiello — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:47:24 +0000

In reply to Does that mean they get a

Nope.

Does that mean they get a

Donal — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:30:16 +0000

In reply to There's another issue here,

Does that mean they get a pass for advocating against other progressive issues?

There's another issue here,

Michael Maiello — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:10:37 +0000

In reply to It is possible that Lori

There's another issue here, which is what define progressivism. In some cases I think the Libertarians are more progressive than some who get to speak for our side.

It is possible that Lori

Donal — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:08:26 +0000

In reply to I don't really share this

It is possible that Lori Gottlieb gets some things right, too. But when she trolled about the ACA you felt the need to speak up.

I agree with that. Also, I

Michael Maiello — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:04:50 +0000

In reply to I'd say that Libertarians go

I agree with that. Also, I have found that among some progressive activists in minority communities that legalization of consensual crimes is not exactly popular. They might be more willing to support treatment over incarceration for nonviolent offenders but legalization of drugs and gambling, much less prostitution, is not attractive to people who see those very things as having a negative impact in their neighborhoods.

I'd say that Libertarians go

rmrd0000 — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 14:59:20 +0000

In reply to I don't really share this

I'd say that Libertarians go out of their way to antagonize minority communities. They can be considered part of solvent drag in a shared goal of drug law reform, surveillance and foreign wars. I don't see any Libertarians acceptable tax the Leader of the battle from the standpoint of minority communities. Both Ron and Rand Paul have soured the water regarding minority outreach.