dagblog - Comments for "Keeping Christmas at Home"

Well Doc, corporate marketing

Beetlejuice — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 13:46:32 +0000

Well Doc, corporate marketing has public impulse buying locked up and patented.

However, Pope Francis has made it known he sees the impulsiveness of consumerism driven by corporate demands for growth and profit as a root cause for the plight of the poor and destitute around the world. I'm thinking he might soon start to "shame" people for thinking too much of themselves and their immediate families while ignoring those less fortunate around them. In my opinion, this Pope doesn't accept lip service ... he wants action and he just might place those demands on to the flock

What's more, he has no interest or need in using charity as a means to increase the numbers in the flock ... charity should be for charity without strings attached ... he actually said proselytism is solemn nonsense.

In fact, he's being attacked by right-wing ideologues as being a commie who hates Christmas, no less.

It would be interesting if he could remove corporate Christmas profiteering from the holiday and bring Christ back without all the corporate bells and whistles.

Well Doc, corporate marketing

Beetlejuice — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 13:16:13 +0000

In reply to Keeping Christmas at Home

Well Doc, corporate marketing has public impulse buying locked up and patented.

In fact, he's being attacked by right-wing ideologues as being a commie who hates Christmas, no less.

It would be interesting if he could remove corporate Christmas profiteering from the holiday and bring Christ back without all the corporate bells and whistles.

Yes, but not only in Israel.

Peter Schwartz — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 21:39:15 +0000

In reply to Of course, many right-wing

Yes, but not only in Israel. My aunt tells me that a large concentration of ultra orthodox in Wantaugh, LI, is pressuring store owners to close from Friday night to Saturday.

I was speaking broadly, too.

In general, I think, Judaism addresses community more strictly than Christianity. For example, if you follow the laws of kashrut, you can really only eat with other Jews or where Jews are doing the cooking and serving.

In gross terms, this is where Judaism and Christianity split early on. The former placed and still places a great deal of emphasis on following the law--doing certain things and almost always with other people. The minyan (a quorum of ten men for the basic services) is important.

Paul said that kashrut and a lot of the other laws were no longer important. What was inside was more important than the outside. In Judaism, what you believe is less important than what you do. "Would that my people forgot Me and kept my Torah."

These are gross generalizations and require many qualifications to approach real accuracy, but I think there's some truth here.

Of course, many right-wing

Verified Atheist — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 18:26:25 +0000

In reply to Doc, this is just great. It

Of course, many right-wing Christians also seek to govern the social sphere, and it's worth pointing out that there are many liberal Muslims and Jews who don't. Heck, in the US, I suspect that there are far fewer Jews (even as a percentage) that want to govern the social sphere than Christians — of course, I realize that you were probably referencing the ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel.

Doc, this is just great. It

Peter Schwartz — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 13:46:00 +0000

In reply to Keeping Christmas at Home

Doc, this is just great. It is the first, truly original take on Christmas that I've read in a long time. It may be the most profound in many ways.

As a non-Christian, I've always enjoyed Christmas and felt funny about enjoying it.

It was sort of that as a member of this society, I was automatically "included" in the celebration or swamped by it. I had the day off whether I wanted it or not. I got to rest, but had no obligation to buy anyone presents if I didn't want to. It was a bit like copping a feel. So, over the years, I found myself taking different stances on what was happening and what I was doing at this time of year. But I never felt settled in whatever my approach to it was for the year.

A few things to add...

I feel a tremendous let down on the day after. Really hung over without having drunk a drop (or usually very little). Actually, it starts after the last present has been opened. So lots of build up (and work in preparing) for something that ends with a dramatic thud emotionally.

When I worked in England, I noticed they kept the festivities going from Christmas to New Years. I don't know if those were the 12 days of Christmas (perhaps they're the ones leading up to the day of?), but it seemed like a much better way to celebrate. Yes, some work got done, but mostly people partied or just rested.

Post-Reformation in the West, religion has become much more of an individual thing and less a set of social norms and rituals. The good news about this is that shrinking the religious social sphere has allowed (at least in the West) many different religions to co-exist side by side more or less peacefully.

But in the days you reference, the Church and its rituals were the organizing principles of society. There was less pressure on the individual in some ways because society (and the Church) carried the load. The individual didn't have to worry about "the meaning of Christmas" or whether he was in keeping with it because the meaning was everywhere you looked.

Over time, the load was transferred onto the shoulders of the individual and individual "Churches" or "faiths" and their minions that were forced now to carve a "spiritual space" out of a larger, largely secular world.

One of the conflicts between Islamic societies and even the one Jewish society and the West is that Islam and (at least orthodox) Judaism seek to govern the social sphere (not just matters of personal conscience or practice) in the way that the Catholic Church once did way back when.

Anyway, great post.

Nice reminder, Doc.

Donal — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 01:54:59 +0000

In reply to Keeping Christmas at Home

Nice reminder, Doc.