dagblog - Comments for "Rich, Insecure and Victimized"

Well put

Flavius — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:12:03 +0000

In reply to I might feel the same but I

Well put

I just wish to clarify

Richard Day — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 04:31:01 +0000

In reply to Of course, then there was

I just wish to clarify this.

85 people own more than 3.5 BILLION people.

I mean who cares. And as I referred to this earlier in some blog, maybe it ends up being 85 families because of trusts and such.

No big deal!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/22/1271695/

-Now-that-you-know-85-people-own-

more-than-half-the-world-here-s-what-to-do-about-it

But who is counting?

I might feel the same but I

ocean-kat — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 03:57:15 +0000

In reply to I had a friend whose father

I might feel the same but I have no patience for that argument either in myself or in others. Its hard to change how you feel but it fairly easy to change how you think and what you do..

I'll make a little confession that's a bit embarrassing. I'm 56 years old and I'm a product of my time and my upbringing. I've worked hard to change the crap I was brought up with and I've had quite a bit of success, but....I'm still a bit homophobic. I feel some discomfort when I see two men kiss. But in my mind I believe in justice and fairness, respect for everyone's rights and freedoms, and making this world a better place for all people.

So I'll hide any discomfort I feel if a couple of my gays friends kiss. And I'll be there if there's some protest for gay rights. I'll vote and agitate and write to support gay rights. Because it doesn't matter what I feel it matters what I think and what I do, and I want to do what's right.

People will always feel discomfort or worse when confronted with those they see as the other or feel discomfort for any number of other twisted reasons. I don't care what people are feeling. I expect people to do what's right or at least try.

I wonder if people who make

Michael Maiello — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 02:24:18 +0000

In reply to Every conversation I've had

I wonder if people who make this argument think that citizens who lived before the national income tax, a fairly recent innovation, had any stake at all in society...

I had a friend whose father

Peter Schwartz — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 02:02:11 +0000

In reply to Extreme wealth, it seems,

I had a friend whose father used to call the phone company every time the operator gave him a wrong number that cost him money. He wanted a refund of the few pennies he had wasted.

For many years, my friend did well, but not wealthy well. But at one point, he became extraordinarily wealthy, and almost as soon as he did, he started complaining bitterly about taxes.

He'd say things like, "This is a great country. You can really build something, assuming the government doesn't take it all away." At the time, I think he'd sold his business for something like $100 million, and he was going to have to pay something like $25 million in taxes.

Admittedly, $25 million is a lot of dough, but still, that left him with $75 million, an amount I could hardly conceive of ever earning or winning. Surely, $75 million was the more than plenty for him and his two-car family. But suddenly, he felt preyed upon; he felt like he had a target on his back and the government was training an arrow on it.

I never said anything to him because he was a friend, but it seemed to me that he had lost his grip on reality. Then, being the fairest of the fair, I had to wonder how I would feel were I in his position was going to be taxed that way. I'd probably feel some anxiety as that $25 million disappeared from my bank account.

Extreme wealth, it seems,

Peter Schwartz — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 01:51:53 +0000

In reply to Rich, Insecure and Victimized

Extreme wealth, it seems, also involves the paranoiac fear that it can all be taken away.

I would argue (judging from what made my father run) that it's this fear that drives (at least some of) them to become extremely wealthy in the first place. So the fear is lurking and ready to pop out as soon as they attain a certain level.

Of course, then there was

Peter Schwartz — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 01:49:36 +0000

In reply to Rich, Insecure and Victimized

Of course, then there was that guy on CNBC or somewhere who thought it was GOOD news that 85 people owned as much as the next 85 billion people (or something like that), and the 85 billion should wake inspired to become one of the 85.

MM, I think it depends on how much a person is ideologically committed to his economic status. IOW, some people are rich, but aren't very philosophical about it. They did XYZ and became rich. End of story.

But other people regard their success and that of their friends as confirmation of a philosophical position, which goes beyond the money they have in the bank. So, beyond wanting to defend their wealth, which doesn't need that much defending actually, they become heated when their philosophy is attacked.

Key to this is convincing themselves that their status is NOT random, but a result of hard work and talent and perseverance--in short, the things those without lack. Now include in that their marriage and religion.

Acquisitiveness naturally

Peter Schwartz — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 00:11:39 +0000

In reply to Rich, Insecure and Victimized

Acquisitiveness naturally breeds, or even intensifies, a fear of loss. It's the fear of having nothing, of powerlessness, that drives people to acquire, and acquisitions provide a layer of protection, an "overcoat" against the cold. As you note, one hopes to be able to do less as one has more, but that also breeds insecurity. Will one's nest egg be preserved and carry one through, or will one have to draw on principal or even go back to work?

But the acquisitive impulse is fueled by the fear of loss before, during, and after.

Every conversation I've had

Peter Schwartz — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 00:04:17 +0000

In reply to Rich, Insecure and Victimized

Every conversation I've had with a "well-off" person on this topic has ended up with his saying: "Yes, but we already pay XX% of the taxes--50% of the people don't pay any. How long can be expected to carry this load alone? How much more can we be expected to pay?"

Of course, we always get into all the other taxes the poor and less off do pay, but that never seems to make a dent. I've had people tell me that everyone should pay at least $1 a year in federal taxes so they'd know what it was like to pay taxes and would feel they had a stake in the society. And on and on and on.

Most of them that I have

Michael Maiello — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 21:38:59 +0000

In reply to I read the Marshall & the

Most of them that I have spoken to or met also seem not to exhibit this kind of anxiety. And, of course, Josh's friend who gave him the anonymous quote was quick to dissociate himself from the herd as he saw it.

That said, Harold McGraw did claim in court that Geithner was out to get him. So, there's that.