dagblog - Comments for "Tennessee Threatens VW over Union Vote"

Sometimes the Union leads a

Bruce Levine — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:37:55 +0000

Sometimes the Union leads a company to water that still won't drink -- because of that race to the bottom. Here's a nice chunk of my life from 2012 where, before your eyes glaze over, you may notice that the court, the bankruptcy court no less, picks up on that "race to the bottom" theme I found myself pushing--because it was so obvious. But whatever you think of the case on the merits, still you have to look at what the union was trying to do in negotiations.

Kudos to the CEO if what you're saying is where he's at. The whole international angle is something I really need to catch up on -- and embarrassingly so. But think about a model where a multinational has to keep on relocating all over the world if it's going to keep up with lower labor costs that cannot be made up in other ways. It doesn't work -- eventually anyway. Maybe the guy is on to something.

Excellent points. Theodore

NCD — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:04:12 +0000

In reply to America must be the only

Excellent points. Theodore Roosevelt summed up problems with US governance in his final SOTU in 1908:

The danger to American democracy lies not in the least in the concentration of administrative power in responsible and accountable hands. It lies in having the power insufficiently concentrated, so that no one can be held responsible to the people for its use. Concentrated power is palpable, visible, responsible, easily reached, quickly held to account. Power scattered through many administrators, many legislators, many men who work behind and through legislators and administrators, is impalpable, is unseen, is irresponsible, can not be reached, can not be held to account. Democracy is in peril wherever the administration of political power is scattered among a variety of men who work in secret, whose very names are unknown to the common people. It is not in peril from any man who derives authority from the people, who exercises it in sight of the people, and who is from time to time compelled to give an account of its exercise to the people.

We have anything but accountability these days with our non-Parliamentary system of 'checks and balances' and a Congress intent on preventing the President from doing anything.

All I read on

artappraiser — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 19:47:35 +0000

In reply to To address the thread along

All I read on topic-admittedly probably a whole lot less than you have--gave me the sense that the possibly illegal political machinations were inspired because this was going to be a new kinda union, and a new kind that maybe would have big legs, therefore extra important that it be stopped.

But the Volkswagen CEO still sounds bound and determined to shake up the U.S. union situation?

To address the thread along

Bruce Levine — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 18:39:11 +0000

In reply to America must be the only

To address the thread along these lines, I am mainly intrigued by making a new kind of union where the management and workers work together in a sort of partnership of conflicting advocates, with a goal of making the business a success, to serve the customer better, and to share any profits/success fairly. Granted, they will often be coming at problems from opposing points of view, but there is no reason that has to have a negative result for one side, it could just as well end up with innovation, problem solving, demanding excellence from one another and overall success.

Such labor-management relationships are anything but new AA, but the point is certainly well taken. There are myriad mature and stable and tough bargaining relationships around the country and certainly in these here parts that fit that bill.

But what strikes me among many things about this particular dispute is how much it brings home the global nature of issues relating to the workplace. And beyond the cooperative approach about which you advocate, I think it is also important to recognize that perhaps both the problems and solutions laying ahead really are beyond our shores.

P.S. I want to briefly circle back to your point that the inherent, real race to the bottom about which I speak makes it extraordinarily necessary to cooperate, and yet it also makes it that much tougher to do so.

America must be the only

artappraiser — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 18:03:34 +0000

In reply to Excellent points. A post of

America must be the only western democracy where the voters don't have faith in, or believe they have a stake, or the wherewithal, to make effective use of government.

This is a well-said point of great interest to me. The way I see it, there's mainly two ways this problem is attacked in the left of center blogosphere, and they conflict.

I and others like me feel it's important to point out nicompoops and incompetency in government. Whether it's GOP ideas or ACA or Obama's foreign policy or his management of an oil disaster in the Gulf or whatever. Regardless of political effect.

Others think it's all about winning a political war. That if we support "our guys" in government in whatever they do, "our guys" will win, and then everything will be hunky dory. That we must always support what "our guys" in government do.

I feel the way to fight the negative resonance with the populace of the right-wing derision about the line "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is to always admit failure in government, to even seek it out. To look at those in government, up to the president, like they work for us, they are they to serve us, and we demand excellence. And to be angry with them when they don't deliver (Proxmire Golden Fleece awards style.) No matter what party, and not caring how our complaints are going to affect the political situation.

I see it like this: supporting and rooting for a sports team is fine because we know it's a game. Government is not a game. I don't "support" any politician or government worker. I continually demand good work from them for my taxes. I don't even like it when people use the word "supporting" when it comes to candidates, and don't think people should work for them in campaigns. They should support us, and work for us, that's what they are asking to do; they should always be asking, begging for our vote.

I think in parliamentary systems, there is less of this because there are more than two parties, it does not become an "us vs. them" rival teams situation where people get more interested in and care more about the political bread-and-circus games than in effective government. I myself think it can be fun to analyze such games, but everyone should be aware while doing so that it is mainly a entertaining distraction.

To address the thread along these lines, I am mainly intrigued by making a new kind of union where the management and workers work together in a sort of partnership of conflicting advocates, with a goal of making the business a success, to serve the customer better, and to share any profits/success fairly. Granted, they will often be coming at problems from opposing points of view, but there is no reason that has to have a negative result for one side, it could just as well end up with innovation, problem solving, demanding excellence from one another and overall success.

Excellent points. A post of

NCD — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 16:37:21 +0000

In reply to Steve Greenhouse is doing a

Excellent points. A post of mine on a 50 year old Gallup poll question:

"In your opinion, which of the following will be the biggest threat to the country in the future - big business, big labor, or big government?"

...which of course had 'framing' that pretended that 'big government' and 'big business' were separate entities with no connections.

According to the poll, unions were more feared than business until the late 70's, and now 'big government' is far and above most feared at 72%.

As a democracy we, the citizens, are supposed to control government, and have the power to hold it accountable. Union members can control unions and union leadership.

America must be the only western democracy where the voters don't have faith in, or believe they have a stake, or the wherewithal, to make effective use of government. Or for managing an auto factory in this case. They actually fear taking on that responsibility. Leaving it to the likes of the Mitt Romneys/ big money/big corporations, who know exactly what they want and how to get it, from government or an industry, with no opposition or restraints.

I guess I didn't hold out

Ramona — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 16:27:42 +0000

In reply to Ah Ramona, welcome to my

I guess I didn't hold out much hope, anyway. Not with that big bucks/political campaign against it. There was a lot on the line and they weren't about to let this happen. Not with their historic strangleholds at stake.

It's a never-ending battle. An odd one, considering the cutting-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face aspect, but never-ending.

And NCD, the extent of VW

Bruce Levine — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 15:32:16 +0000

In reply to Tennessee folks, and lots

And NCD, the extent of VW unionization worldwide is a wildcard that could be used to the detriment of those working in Tennessee now and in the future. First, no matter what VW does now, folks will see a link between the vote and any new lines of automobiles rolled out in Chatanooga. Second, I cannot believe that the German auto-workers, who pushed VW to take a neutral position, will appreciate the governmental intrusion into the rights of their brothers and sisters in Tennessee.

One caveat, it is not just the south that is anti-union. This country is anti-union, including many folks who consider themselves to be liberals.

Postscript: Here's my dream strategy. Contact the German folks on the VW workers' Council there and get them to push VW to build a plant in Michigan, or Ohio, or upstate New York, or someplace other than where the politicians can brag about breaking the law, in spirit or otherwise, of American labor relations.

Steve Greenhouse is doing a

Bruce Levine — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 15:30:09 +0000

In reply to Tennessee folks, and lots

Steve Greenhouse is doing a nice job covering this. He is one of the last of the old-time labor journalists.

Tennessee folks, and lots

NCD — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 15:16:41 +0000

In reply to Just saw it. The lies have

Tennessee folks, and lots 'Mericans, know their place. Exceptionally intimidated.

Do what Republicans tell you and keep your trap shut. Or else. Or a long list of scary stuff will happen.

The NYT said 'almost all' of Volkswagen's 105 plants world wide are unionized.