dagblog - Comments for "Ramblin, Blabberin, and Confabulatin'"

If they get Miley Cyrus to

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 23:09:40 +0000

If they get Miley Cyrus to sign on, they'll get the numbers. Short of that, it's 80 re-groove: good show, but no staying power. Gogol Bordello should of course play. And maybe a bit of Diamanda Galás to liven things up.

There is a compilation of

A Guy Called LULU — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 19:30:02 +0000

In reply to Ramblin, Blabberin, and Confabulatin'

There is a compilation of videos at WASHINGTON'S BLOG. They all are promoting the Worldwide Wave of Action set to begin on Martin Luther Kings Day.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/worldwide-wave-action.html

I do not particularly recommend any of them except possibly the first one of two by Anonymous and then only if you have not paid any attention up until now and would like to hear what is being proposed. The last one is a pretty cool presentation though.
I went to YouTube for each one and noted the view count. That last one is described as "A new remixed music video featuring Eminem, Ice Cube, Korn and Anonymous aligning forces to set off the Worldwide Wave of Action". It has been viewed 168,732 times. The count for the others quickly drops to 20k then 15k then 5 videos that have not even been viewed 1 thousand times. I believe these are tiny numbers on YouTube compared to anything that has been said to go 'viral'. This is probably a fair indication that the movement has not yet gained any traction and that it might not do so at all.
Then again, you never can tell. Until you can tell. Whoever is pushing the idea got an early start. The kick off is in early Spring on a National Holiday which has some symbolic alignment with WWWOA's professed motives. If it was to turn into something it is about as far away as possible from the time that street action would get frozen out next winter.
The video which got the most hits was one which would, I think, appeal to the population segment most likely to hit the streets. When street demonstrations happen they often create an energy that draws a crowd. Then after that, nothing draws a crowd like a crowd. Summertime has its own dynamics and high unemployment among young people frees up more to join the crowd.

I expect that public display of committed energy would be a necessary part of any big movement but there are also individual actions suggested. Who can guess at the affect of possible cyber actions? I saw somewhere that there is surprise that no cyber attacks have happened in the Ukraine uprising.
Everything I have seen promoting the WWWOA stresses staying peaceful and legal. I sure hope it does if actions do develop. Thousands of peaceful protesters potentially having some affect are usually enough to make the authorities go nuts, and it only takes a couple nuts to incite violent trouble from either direction. I don't want to see those boys in blue, the segment of our population that everybody says should have guns, be tested by anything approaching the situation we have seen in the streets of Kiev. It will definitely be bad for business if that happens. And for some number of activists that is precisely the point, Just like it was the pint of Occupy.

Yes. The totality of the

moat — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:33:35 +0000

In reply to There were 400,000 Jews in

Yes. The totality of the enterprise surprised everybody, even the people who carried it out.

Discussing what could have happened instead only works if the conversation starts at the edge of that crazy place that was normal when the bad things happened.

You have a number of

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:45:11 +0000

In reply to I don't buy the idea that

You have a number of historical examples how resistance against the Blitzkrieg and Kristalnacht and other invasions went. Find one where a few guns would have changed things significantly - whether Jews among 4 million brownshirts in Germany, or scared locals in Poland or France. The other issue you ignore was that in the Warsaw Ghetto, they knew the alternative was death in camps - in the 1930's the perceived choice was fight & likely die, or give in to suffer harassment/loss of jobs/other humiliation with the chance of emigrating. Anyway, read the history books, it's all there.

It was a made up situation of

rmrd0000 — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:20:44 +0000

In reply to You pick 1 sentence out of

It was a made up situation of armed Jews confronting the Nazis.I posed another made up situation. Think Turtledove. Continue your made up argument about a made up scenario with yourself.

I don't buy the idea that

Resistance — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:16:07 +0000

In reply to You pick 1 sentence out of

I don't buy the idea that folks in the region didn't believe Hitler could do such a thing to his own people. Back in the 30's folks around the world were warning others about Hitler.

I believe, had the Jews been armed, the resistance might have taken it right into the heart of Germany; as KGB wrote. Instead of American GI's with guns fighting Hitler.

It would have been German citizens fighting their own war, in the name of self defense.

The Jews knew they didn't have the modern day weaponry and what weaponry they did have, was probably confiscated.

So all they could do, was hope and pray the government would act civil.

Those about to board the trains were no doubt apprehensive; there homes and businesses taken; but what else could they do? They had no means to resist.

Lesson to be learned

Never trust the Governments to remain benevolent. Keep your means of resistance updated and close.

You pick 1 sentence out of

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:52:30 +0000

In reply to Response to PP above The

You pick 1 sentence out of the thread - no, I didn't change the topic - I gave the example of the Warsaw Ghetto, for example, to show how far small arms could dent the Nazi machine - not theoretical at all. I didn't have the audacity to compare the actual Warsaw resistance or Kristalnacht where hundreds/thousands died with a what-if about an Alabama sheriff who used dogs but didn't quite shoot or kill anyone. Somehow I don't get how the latter fits into the framework of where guns are needed - the black protesters won without resorting to violence or escalating into a fight. In the former situations, Jewish victims and resisters lost - both with and without weapons, though with delayed the loss a few months.

Response to PP above The

rmrd0000 — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:29:28 +0000

In reply to Ramblin, Blabberin, and Confabulatin'

Response to PP above

The threat began with

"Could the Holocaust have occurred if Europe's Jews had owned thousands of then-modern military Mauser bolt action rifles?"

I said that both the Jews and Blacks under Bull Connor's police force would have faced bullets if they mounted an armed rebellion. One post noted that the discussion was "Turtledovian backward-looking rewrites of history". It was speculation so hypothesizing what would happen if Bull Connor faced armed Blacks was fair game. I focused on what the immediate response to armed resistance would have been.

The original suggestion was that abuses would have been prevented if the human targets of abuses were armed. I replied in the negative. One post noted that the Resistance did not halt Hitler's troops. It was a theoretical discussion. You changed the discussion.

See below

rmrd0000 — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:28:48 +0000

In reply to The Jews had been singled out

See below

The Jews had been singled out

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:37:45 +0000

In reply to The original situation is

The Jews had been singled out as a detriment to society. Armed revolt would have justified mass murder in the streets. Similarly, if Blacks had fired on Bull Connor, it would have been open season on Blacks by law enforcement and vigilantes.

Yes, of course the police would have responded to gunfire with gunfire, with violence - that's hardly controversial - it's called law enforcement.

Comparing Bull Connor with mass murderers is controversial. For whatever an asshole he was, he still is not known to have killed anyone, which would make him pathetic in the Nazis' eyes as they orchestrated mass murder and ethnic cleansing. We're in Godwin's Law cuckooland now - there was no destroying of thousands of black businesses or churches - the bombing of 1 with 4 girls dying drew outrage, not eviction of 30,000 blacks. Even though that response was far from perfect - here's a great speech from a white guy driven out for his sympathies - the bombings and Connor's police brutality were breaking points where white southern Christians and humanists and moderates started breaking away, not a watershed moment for more violence like Kristalnacht. Even Wallace's standing at the gates of Tuscaloosa the same year (1963) was a face-saving gesture, not a serious attempt at defiance. Integration started across the state peacefully and Alabama's schools were completely integrated by 1968 - here's a story from a girl who went through it - tough times but still with significant pockets of white support, quite the opposite of Germany 1933/1938 where the situation went rather literally to hell.

PS - response from Rabbi Grafman after the bombing - a recurring theme is targeting the "nice people" who normally sit by even if condemning in private - a reference to MLK's comments, as well as a result of the German public's attitude condemned at Nürnberg - "we didn't know, there was nothing we could do"