dagblog - Comments for "Black People: Don’t Buy Into the Great American Myth"

Good point.

Peter Schwartz — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 15:41:19 +0000

In reply to Peter, you said, "Put it a

Good point.

Peter, you said, "Put it a

Wattree — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 15:26:09 +0000

In reply to Not sure I understand your

Peter, you said,

"Put it a different way. A white person's success or failure mostly has little to do with the color advantage he has over a black person. Perhaps, if a black person and a white person are competing for the same job--if they are competing directly--then society's racial stereotypes can enter in."

Black man and white felon – same chances for hire

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/09/study-black-man-and-white-felon-sa...

Not sure I understand your

Peter Schwartz — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 14:55:55 +0000

In reply to My comment was not a protest

Not sure I understand your point entirely.

Here's how I see what Eric is saying...

• Blacks are stereotyped in the media as being much worse off, economically, than they are. This stereotype is based on stereotypes about black talent, intelligence, etc.

(Eric may be saying that the majority of blacks are, in fact, doing as well as the majority of whites--which I'm not sure is true based on the numbers I read, but leaving this aside for the moment.)

• Blacks shouldn't buy into this stereotypical portrayal of them.

• Some blacks, however, aren't doing well. But they, too, shouldn't buy into this stereotype about blackness=poor, because some whites are also doing as poorly as they are, even without having to face the discrimination blacks face.

IOW, poor blacks' economic status has little to do, inherently, with their color. This is his point, IMO. It has less to do with how fucked up poor whites are than with trying to counter the stereotype that blackness=poverty.

Eric is wrong, in my view, to say these poor whites "have every advantage in life." They have one, overriding advantage over blacks, and while it's a big one, it's not the only one, and it's not necessarily decisive in their own success or failure. To put it another way, a white person's success or failure doesn't necessarily, and often doesn't, have anything to do with how well or poorly his black neighbor is doing. Any given white person may have all kinds of strikes against him that tend to make him less successful than any number of other people, white, black or Asian.

Edit to add: Put it a different way. A white person's success or failure mostly has little to do with the color advantage he has over a black person. Perhaps, if a black person and a white person are competing for the same job--if they are competing directly--then society's racial stereotypes can enter in.

Of course, if you're looking at the two "groups" at a macro level, you can say that some portion of white success has been achieved at the expense of black failure. But you have to keep the macro view and the individual view separate. You also have to separate out the idea that blacks are doing poorly because of social conditions and the view that blacks are doing poorly because of some inherent lack. Unfortunately, racists conclude the latter based on the former.

In my comments above, I am

moat — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 13:54:38 +0000

In reply to It's not the individual white

In my comments above, I am not arguing that a White Privilege does not exist. On the contrary, I began by acknowledging its pervasive quality. Your statement is not the same as saying a group is poor "despite having every advantage."

To clarify. Being being poor

AnonymousRm — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 11:56:02 +0000

In reply to It's not the individual white

To clarify. Being being poor is detrimental for everyone, but there is a tendency for less resources to be available for minorities.Even when disasters like Katrina or Sandy strike, it is harder for minority groups to get relief compared to whites.

It's not the individual white

rmrd0000 — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 04:50:37 +0000

In reply to My comment was not a protest

It's not the individual white people who are the problem, it the system. Judicial system and wage disparities persist. Black face harsher sentences for similar crimes and lower wages for similar work. There have been studies noting that a "black-sounding" name can result in being denied housing just over the phone. Similar named-based denials occur on job applications. There is a White Privilege.

My comment was not a protest

moat — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:36:53 +0000

In reply to I see what you're saying,

My comment was not a protest reminding people that poor white people have it hard too. It was directed at the hypocrisy of Wattree militating against the use of economic status to make comparisons between different groups' accomplishments followed by making exactly that kind of comparison himself:

"but there are also many White people in that very same condition, and, in spite of having every advantage in life."

The comparison is the reverse image of that used by racists who say affirmative action policies put Black people in jobs they did not deserve to have on the basis of merit. In other words, it is another way to say: How fucked up can these white people be to be living like this when they have all the advantages denied to black people?

I see what you're saying,

Peter Schwartz — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:01:26 +0000

In reply to I have less than zero

I see what you're saying, but...

But from the perspective of a black person, they do have every advantage, or at least one overriding advantage even if they're not very advantaged in other ways.

His color, not his class, put

Peter Schwartz — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 02:51:30 +0000

In reply to It's an article on how the

His color, not his class, put him "behind."

He had to be extraordinarily gifted and lucky to get to the WH.

This is the tragedy of racism. Even if you've got the smarts...even if you grew up middle class...even if you've got everything your white coevals have...you start a few steps behind because of your color and have to run a few steps faster to get even.

You can see this in how he was treated after he was elected...

You can see this when folks say he wouldn't gotten there had he not been black...

As if he were some mediocrity and his color, instead of disqualifying him, was his only qualification for the highest office.

I've often thought that if Obama's daughters had acted like, say, Sarah Palin's daughter, knocked up by an illiterate hockey player, he wouldn't have gotten within five states of the WH. Those headlines write themselves.

I have less than zero

moat — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 23:18:15 +0000

In reply to Black People: Don’t Buy Into the Great American Myth

I have less than zero interest in questioning the call for a collective "Black" community incentive to work against the double standards I see applied all the time in my daily life. But the last sentence of the following sticks in my craw:

So don't buy into the great American myth. Yes, there are Black people who are struggling and at the bottom of the heap, but there are also many White people in that very same condition, and, in spite of having every advantage in life.

That is an exquisitely racist thing to say.