dagblog - Comments for "Are we Manufacturing Consent on Flight 17"

Just because someone is

Elusive Trope — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:44:43 +0000

Just because someone is trying to manufacture (dis)content, doesn't equate to them not using the truth to do so. Or mixing truth with opinion, etc.

I don't think he has been completing off the mark, but he let his fame go to his head from what I have seen, and he comes across as a pompous asshat. The last time I tried to listen to him, he seemed to be trying to purposively talk above people's head so rather than enlighten them they would walk away thinking how brilliant he was.

My complaint against

Aaron Carine — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:26:28 +0000

In reply to There are two basic ways to

My complaint against Beetlejuice is that he seems to have decided that no source can be believed, and that wasn't what Chomsky was saying in Manufacturing Consent or his other books. Beetlejuice doesn't even believe human rights groups, while Chomsky usually does.

Incidentally, I used to admire Chomsky, but he became a douche after 9/11.

There are two basic ways to

Elusive Trope — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 13:00:42 +0000

In reply to Are we Manufacturing Consent on Flight 17

There are two basic ways to rule the masses: consent and coercion. I read this many years ago I think on the whole Nixon resignation thing, and how strange it was, really, in the history of rulers, where one person just steps down and hands over the reigns of power to another, and this is also true of America's, starting with Washington (who some at the time wanted to make him life-long "king"), of transferring power over to another group one was trying to beat.

Because what the "smart" ones realized that it is easier to rule the masses through consent rather than coercion. Sure, you can go out there and shot someone every time they say a discouraging word. This is in reality much more time and energy consuming, always looking over your shoulder, so to speak. It is so much easier if the vast majority of people just consent to your rule, and this lets you to have the few naysayers yell how as loud as they want about how terrible you are because they really don't pose a credible threat.

But as it turns out, manufacturing that consent is time and energy consuming, just a "non-violent" one - using the media etc. And those in opposition spend their time and energy trying to manufacture discontent. Chomsky is a good example of this. And actually in terms of effectiveness, he is pretty damn poor at it (but I'm sure he just blames other people for being too stupid or whatever.

So what would be surprising is if some event happens that could assist this or that side manufacture more consent or discontent, and they don't use it.

Journalists, embassies, and

Aaron Carine — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 02:21:03 +0000

In reply to That's the point ... there

Journalists, embassies, and human rights groups are sources with first hand knowledge. Are you denying that Russia invaded Crimea or that Yanky shot unarmed protesters? Because if you are, you need to actually prove that the journalists, embassies, and human rights groups are making it all up. Just saying that they are is no different from the tactics of Holocaust deniers. When Chomsky came up with the term "manufacturing consent", he didn't mean that all information is unreliable. He cites sources all the time.

That's the point ... there

Beetlejuice — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 01:47:20 +0000

In reply to You mean the sources who say

That's the point ... there isn't any.

Everything you're getting all worked up over are partial truths based more on 2nd and 3rd sources, but not verified as accurate by any one with 1st hand knowledge armed with actual facts and evidence to support them.

my point being everything we're hearing is being written to appease our basic instincts, cherry picking facts that support well-tuned biases so they will be accepted as authentic.

And yes ... news agencies, embassies, human rights groups ... are the biggest manipulators using their positions to manufacture public acceptance of what they "claim" to be true while holding back actual evidence that would say otherwise. That's what manufactured consent is.

You mean the sources who say

Aaron Carine — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:59:33 +0000

In reply to As we speak, the US is being

You mean the sources who say Russia invaded the Crimea and that Yanky slaughtered unarmed protesters? You think there is doubt about this? Then just about everyone in the world--news agencies, embassies, human rights groups--would have to be part of a conspiracy to fabricate this stuff. Do you have evidence that these things didn't happen?

In other words, people have

Beetlejuice — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 00:28:23 +0000

In reply to The driving force behind the

In other words, people have vacated the political center and have taken refuge in either the Right camp or Left camp leaving the area between the two null and void. And it's the middle ground between the two where one is able to see the issues between both sides and recognize what each side must to in order to achieve harmony.

Unfortunately, our political process has removed the political center because bringing both political party's together in harmony to work for the people would force each party to give up positions in order to gain leverage in other areas that would benefit the public but come at the cost of political power being shared equally.

And the situation between the Israelis' and Palestinians' is in the same boat too ... no one in the political center to work for a peaceful resolution that everyone can agree with and abide by without anger or remorse.

As we speak, the US is being

Beetlejuice — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 00:14:47 +0000

In reply to If you just wanted to talk

As we speak, the US is being forced to back-track on accusations they've made ... seems they were manipulating partial facts and truths and have been caught.

And the point of " Gatt " is that he may to you a distortion peddler, but I'll bet some of your trusted sources would be distortion peddlers to others. Oh, and he's not a trusted source of mine ... he was nothing more than a straw dog to illustrate a point

Point being ... they all distort the truth to peddle their point of view, and some more than others ... that's what manufacturing consent is ... find out what you have to say in order to get people to trust and believe what you're saying is the truth based on what you say are facts ... even though they aren't.

" ... My sense of the

Beetlejuice — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 00:05:35 +0000

In reply to Is there an ongoing attempt

" ... My sense of the situation, especially from the Asian perspective, is that the US is in danger of overplaying its hand ... "

I couldn't have said it better ... the US has taken the position of using the situation in the Ukraine as an excuse to manufacture facts out of partial info so as to paint Russia as the behind it using social misfits as proxies the further Russia's ambitions to move their borders further west

If you just wanted to talk

Aaron Carine — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:59:54 +0000

In reply to the fact is ... there are no

If you just wanted to talk about Flight 17, maybe you shouldn't have linked to Gatt, who peddled distortions about other things i.e. the invasion of Crimea and the killing of the protesters.

We don't know for sure if the rebels downed the plane, but it may be more plausible than the government doing it.