dagblog - Comments for "Is There A Spiritual Path To Reason?"

I found your comment to be

Danny Cardwell — Mon, 09 Feb 2015 01:13:50 +0000

In reply to The questions you ask require

I found your comment to be very enlightening. Thanks for engaging this topic.

Denmark Vesey, another man

rmrd0000 — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:09:27 +0000

Denmark Vesey, another man who plotted a slave revolt, was hung for his efforts. Vesey is considered a hero by many. Frederick Douglass used Vesey's name as a rallying cry to encourage enlistment in the first all-Black regiment.

http://www.blackpast.org/aah/denmark-vesey-conspiracy-1822

William Stryon won a Pulitzer Prize for a less than stellar view of Nat Turner in " The Confessions of Nat Turner". The book was criticized by many in the Black community.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Confessions_of_Nat_Turner

Views differ on whether Turner and Vesey were heroes or villains.

The killing would have

rmrd0000 — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 14:46:13 +0000

In reply to I used to run into similar

The killing would have involved the male firstborn, adult and child. The prevention would have been through freeing the slaves.

Secular arguments have been made that freeing the slaves as the end effect of the Civil War was not worth the number of lives lost.

I used to run into similar

Verified Atheist — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:41:58 +0000

In reply to This has nothing to do with

I used to run into similar arguments when debating capital punishment with friends (or otherwise) who supported it. They'd ask, "You mean if someone killed your mother, you wouldn't want them to be killed?" I'd answer, "Well, sure I would, but that wouldn't make it right."

Now, putting aside the morality of capital punishment, what you're describing is even worse, because infants are truly innocent. However, given what he went through, one could possibly understand why Turner did what he did. That does not make it right, just (possibly) understandable.

When we're talking about God killing infants in Egypt, it's not even understandable because, according to current thought at least, God is supposed to be perfect. (Back when the Old Testament was written, I think the thought of a perfect God – omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent – had yet to be conceived.)

This has nothing to do with

ocean-kat — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 20:02:35 +0000

In reply to I consider it hypothetical

This has nothing to do with what I might do in a terrible situation. I'm sure if I was tortured I'd eventually do and say anything no matter how depraved to stop the pain. But I wouldn't call it moral. One can find a moral justification for killing slave owners. While I disagree with the morality of killing the slave owner's wives, since women at that time were only a few steps above slaves, I can understand the argument that they also often owned slaves. But during Turner's rebellion they literally bashed in the heads of babies in cradles. I'm not saying killing a child is worse than killing an adult. But the baby is innocent of any moral crime that could be used to justify that murder.

Your moral code that justifies the killing of infants, of innocents, is the same moral code that is used by Al Qaeda to justify their terrorism. The US has killed thousands of innocent men women and children in Iraq ect so they claim they are justified in killing innocent Americans.

To defend the killing of innocents to achieve a goal is abhorrent. You disgust me.

Or not.

Ramona — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:36:34 +0000

In reply to The one who commanded the

Or not.

I consider it hypothetical

rmrd0000 — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 03:02:50 +0000

In reply to It's one thing to kill a

I consider it hypothetical because neither of us are held in bondage. It is easy to speculate on how militant or forgiving we would be. Hypothetical militancy could turn to cowardice and hypothetical forgiveness could turn to rage. It is easy to call Nat Turner crazy despite the insanity of his situation since there is no skin in the game.

Regarding the Biblical aspect of the discussion. If the Hebrews were released from bondage, it would have been the end of the story. There were repeated To go further, Pharaoh ordered all of his subjects to drown every male Hebrew child.

http://biblehub.com/exodus/1-22.htm

Hebrews were held in bondage for 400 years. Moses gave repeated warnings to Pharaoh to free the Hebrews. The Egyptians had the ability to reject the Pharaoh's vicious ruling. Circumcision was an option (meaning conversion).

It's one thing to kill a

ocean-kat — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 23:00:46 +0000

In reply to This is all hypothetical. I

It's one thing to kill a slave driver beating a slave. I can easily see the moral justification for that. It's quite another to bash in the head of his one year old baby sleeping in a crib near by. It's not hypothetical. The story is quite clear. In the Exodus story god killed every first born of every household in Egypt where the door was not splashed with blood. Surely there was some mother giving birth that day and minutes after giving birth god killed the baby. Surely there were children just weeks old killed. Surely there were poor Egyptians who never owned a slave or interacted in any way with a slave who had a child killed. As immoral as I view Turner's plan to kill every white man, women, and child they found he at least spared a few poor whites. God was more psychotic and pathologically evil than Turner.

This is all hypothetical. I

rmrd0000 — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 22:37:18 +0000

In reply to Well you'll find a lot of

This is all hypothetical. I can understand Nat Turner's viewpoint. If there was a chance for freedom do you take it even if you have to kill? Do you choose to remain a captive and allow abuse of your family to continue? I think Nat Turner made a good decision.

If one of the girls captured by Boko Horam escaped and killed a child to prevent the child from screaming, is she a villain or a hero? Should she stay a captive or go for freedom?

You are correct about the violence in the Bible. Moses killed a slave driver beating a Hebrew slave to death. Should he have just stood by?

http://evidenceforchristianity.org/hebrews-1124-27-says-moses-leaving-eg...

(We have veered of off the topic of the post)

Well you'll find a lot of

ocean-kat — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:54:38 +0000

In reply to As I noted my "allegiance" to

Well you'll find a lot of support for that view in the bible considering the numerous times it claims god told the believers to go in and kill every man, women, and child in a city. Sometimes every animal as well. That's not a moral code I can subscribe to.