dagblog - Comments for "What Does Charlie Hebdo Mean For Us?"

In the original post . . .

oldenGoldenDecoy — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 21:15:00 +0000

In reply to What Does Charlie Hebdo Mean For Us?

In the original post . . .

Mr Carldwell is quite correct.

''...everyone wasn't laughing or willing to laugh."

From the Daily Mail.

Why you shouldn't poke a bull with a big stick...

I'm not saying you shouldn't... Only that it's obvious there are repercussions to consider.

~OGD~

Emma, I think I understand

Peter — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 17:53:27 +0000

In reply to As long as we're going meta..

Emma, I think I understand your concern about excess male population and violence but I think it is a much deeper problem than merely numbers. Patriarchal societies have dominated the world for about 6000 yrs, violence and aggression have been the hallmark of most of these societies including our own.

Your point about the gender imbalance in China may be a problem for young men there but it may also offer some advantages and power to young Chinese women and immigration could relieve some of the imbalance. Excess poor Amerikan young women might find opportunities there that are unavailable in the Homeland because unemployment in China is one of the lowest in the world.

Al Qaeda was started by a multimillionaire heir to a construction empire,OBL. The 9/11 hijackers were not that young nor were they part of the surplus young male population, that population is mostly in the West. Al Qaeda despises the Saudi ruling royalty because they are tools of the West and allowed US troops on what they consider sacred Islamic land, this was the stated reason for the 9/11 attack.

Trying to frame the problem as , what is wrong with 'Them', only deflects from the root problems of 100 yrs of Western dominance and humiliation of the whole ME.

Au contraire, Artsy is not

Oxy Mora — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 16:00:41 +0000

In reply to P.S. meta: I been bad doing

Au contraire, Artsy is not bad.

(You can take a girl away from the Nuns but you can't take the Nuns away from the girl.)

As long as we're going meta..

EmmaZahn — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:31:14 +0000

In reply to Re: where are we? In the face

As long as we're going meta...

We should think about what basic human need religion, class and culture satisfy for not just radical Islamist groups but for the entire world's surplus population particularly its young men, including our own. What to do with the world's rapidly increasing surplus population (mostly male thanks to China's one-child policy, sex-selective abortion practices in India and a general preference for males in almost all cultures) may be the 21st century's biggest challenge.

You say we have have been able to get along with Saudi Arabia for decades and yet it was its dissatisfied and surplus young men who formed Al-Qaeda and almost all of the 9/11 hijackers, who were relatively affluent and well educated. And Saudi Arabia is pretty much the kind of Sharia state they say they want yet they were willing to sacrifice themselves for --- what? And why? What were they seeking or what were they missing in their lives?

P.S. meta: I been bad doing

artappraiser — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 12:40:13 +0000

In reply to Re: where are we? In the face

P.S. meta: I been bad doing all this posting, I've got to get back to work (on deadline.) Discuss amongst yourselves, don't get mad at me if I don't participate for a couple days.I thought it better for me to leave this up rather than delete it.

I just found this NPR story,

artappraiser — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 12:37:49 +0000

In reply to I don't think that this is

I just found this NPR story, it not just backs up my theory on this attack but suggests that the new direction of "Al Qaeda et. al." is the same. Al Qaeda online magazine Inspire has been pushing the same meme while no one was paying attention, their most wanted list all about striking the insulters, they're even after Salman Rushdie after all these years:

....To see how these threats and attacks have evolved over the past quarter-century, consider al-Qaida's most-wanted list, published in 2013 in its online magazine, Inspire.

A couple of things stand out in the article titled "Wanted: Dead or Alive for Crimes Against Islam." First, it attracted little attention because it's the kind of thing the group does regularly. Second, the group did not target Western political or military leaders — the people who have actually waged war against the group.

It didn't even mention the U.S. Navy's SEAL Team 6, which two years earlier had carried out the raid that killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

Rather, the 10-person list was devoted to those who had committed a greater crime in the eyes of al-Qaida: They had insulted Islam and the Prophet Muhammad. On the list were several cartoonists, along with a writer, a filmmaker and a fundamentalist U.S. preacher with a minuscule following.

Among those named was Charlie Hebdo editor Stephane Charbonnier, who was killed Wednesday. Another was Rushdie, who has earned a lifetime achievement award among Muslim radicals for The Satanic Verses, his novel that re-imagines parts of the prophet's life.....

They care more about this than the U.S helping.bomb ISIS. Salman Rushdie and Ayann Hirsi Ali are important enemies over Barack Obama, Israel, France, the Saudi royals or Egyptian military, It's cartoonists, writers and talking heads.

Re: where are we? In the face

artappraiser — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:58:59 +0000

In reply to What Does Charlie Hebdo Mean For Us?

Re: where are we? In the face of rising fears in the western world

You want to go really big picture, long term? Leave the freedom of speech issues behind, think about the attackers meme of enforcing their religious rule of no blasphemy of the prophet anywhere in the world. And look at what is happening to the Mideast, what the real big picture goals of many of the radical Islamist groups of many varieties are: Religious segregation now, religious segregation forever in the region.

What got me thinking on that is this New York Times article "No Safety for Christians in the Mideast"

....The Middle East’s demography, in other words, is being fundamentally rewritten, particularly in recent months when militants of the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, have expelled, murdered or persecuted Christians and other minorities in the Iraqi city of Mosul.

For the first time in centuries, scholars of Middle Eastern religion say, Iraq is becoming an exclusively Islamic state after hosting one of the region’s biggest Christian minorities.

“There is a feeling of ‘fin de race’ among Christians all over the Middle East,” the prominent Lebanese historian Kamal Salibi was widely quoted as saying before his death in 2011.

“Each time a Christian goes, no other Christian comes to fill his place, and that is a very bad thing for the Arab world.”

Indeed, Pope Francis told Middle Eastern Christians: “Your very presence is precious for the Middle East. You are a small flock, but one with a great responsibility in the land where Christianity was born and first spread. You are like leaven in the dough....

What does that mean for us in the West? If it continues, doesn't look like it's going to reverse for decades at least. With the West.as pluralistic by choice? Maybe not much, as we've been able to get along with countries like Saudi Arabia for decades? As long as we stop supporting Israel so much? What about Southeast Asia, Hindu India vs. Muslim Pakistan/Afghanistan? Does that affect us?

A world with much more religious segregation by country, how does that affect us? It's the trajectory we are on right now and attacks like these are just pushing it faster. Maybe it means a lot more immigration for the next few decades, of people that don't want to live in Islamic states. Things like that. What about the Sunni/Shia rift and whether Iran gets nukes?

Well, where does that take us? War of civllizations maybe if not physical, metaphorical? Certainly just the opposite of the initial promise of the internet.

I would remind that meantime, elsewhere in the world, China is struggling with assimilating Christmas, the ancient western pagan celebration that was appropriated long ago by the Roman Catholicism...

I'm not asking these questions in a judgmental way, I'm asking them in a "business analyst" kind of way, a "try to predict the future" kind of way. It's obvious radical Islam is not going away anytime soon! And it's forcing a lot of changes on the rest of the world and will continue to do so. We will have to deal with the repercussions of that for the rest of our lives, we should think about what those really might be, big picture.

Everyone should support the

Peter — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:35:51 +0000

In reply to What Does Charlie Hebdo Mean For Us?

Everyone should support the right to free expression even if it is crude and offensive but it appears that some people are moving beyond supporting the right to supporting the content of the Charley Hebdo cartoons.

Glen Greenwald at the Intercept has written an interesting post on this development.

I don't want to "slut shame"

Danny Cardwell — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:28:53 +0000

In reply to Why climb a mountain? Why

I don't want to "slut shame" anyone. I see the point you're making. I would only supplement it by drawing a distinction in some of the examples you listed. Climbing a mountain is a risk with the ending aim being accomplishment be it personal or for a cause one feels bigger than self interest. Treating Ebola is the kind of altruistic cause that benefits the giver and the recipient. I don't mean to cast any negative light on their deaths. That isn't my intention. I don't equate what I do with the risks soldiers make. Pushing the envelope is a great way of creating a dialogue. My point is that the pen is mightier than the sword, but provocation without any practical solution to the problems your pointing out seems empty. I admire their courage, but I don't equate it to someone in Afghanistan on the ground. I hope this doesn't seem callous.

You list some good points NCD

Peter — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:23:42 +0000

In reply to Kouachi was brought to trial

You list some good points NCD especially that Kouachi was radicalized by US aggression against Muslims long before the offensive cartoons were printed.

When insurgents attack US occupying forces I don't think you can call it terrorism although they also attacked civilians which is terrorism. The US has used terror as a tool of war since its inception beginning with the Native American genocide through WW2 with Japan and Germany and more recently in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Islamic Jihadis have few tools to fight the Hegemon and are reduced to using a disgusting but effective method of striking back.