dagblog - Comments for "How Propaganda Conquers Democracy"

The new reports i have read

Peter — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 22:16:44 +0000

The new reports i have read state that the missiles came from a UAF controlled area but even if the Western report is true this could have been a mistake. OTOH the months long intentional attacks against the civilian population of the Republics by the UAF is well documented, hundreds have died or been maimed.

I see you feel it is your duty to the Homeland to pander to revisionist history, a bit of truth and a lot of BS. I understand why Amerikan Exceptionalists can't ever admit that the USSR fought and won WW2 taking unimaginable loses while we would have crumbled under even a fraction of their casualties.

I don't know why you bring up Communists when talking about present day Russia, Putin and the Ruling Class in Russia are just as much Capitalists as Obama and our Ruling Class. The people of the Donbass may want a Socialist government and overthrow of the Oligarchs but Putin certainly does not.

Interesting - Russian

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:45:16 +0000

In reply to Great and timely topic Lu

Interesting - Russian-speaking rebels killed 30 civilians today and wounded almost 100 more in an attack on Mariupol - is this more "Propaganda"? Do civilian deaths count if by rebels, or only if done by the "Fascist Junta"?

If a civilian plane falls in a forest and no one examines the wreckage or sees the smoke, did it exist? or is it just a political football for he said-she said bickering, tied to bizarre Snoopy and the Red Baron-like tales of aerial dogfights with a commercial airline?

Meanwhile, it seems there's a move to confuse Poroshenko's asking for $15 billion with Soros' proposal that Western powers provide $50 billion for a much more serious problem. An honest mistake, or blatant propaganda? well, the continuing effort to peg Nuland as spending $5 billlion on Yanukovych's ouster, rather than the combined sum of all US aid to Ukraine over 24 years, makes me think these types of "innocent" mistakes are just propaganda.

Anyway, good to see you come out clearly rooting for the NAF rebels to prevail - sometimes I feel like I'm tilting at windmills when I wonder about those those on the left who seem really excited for the rebels to win while people tell me they don't really exist. Unlike those Little Green Men, you seem to actually exist, as do those Grad missiles and tanks the Russians keep sneaking in. Whether they think they'll take the coastline to Crimea or simply keep boots in the game, we'll see.

But I'm sure the invocation of neo-Nazi links to WWII will continue, which still seems strange, considering WWII also invokes the tail-end of Smokin' Joe Stalin killing some 20 million of his own people, splitting Poland in half with Adolf, and then killing the Polish intelligentsia in a forest and letting the Nazis wipe out the Jewish ghetto. I guess I step over the line by suggesting moral equivalence between 2 breeds of monsters who both deserve special chambers in hell, and find it odd that this selective memory that notices Nazis and not equally brutal Communists is even given time of day in today's digital world, but I guess scream and rant long enough, you get your way, as the Tea Party has proven. Enjoy your hard-earned desserts.

TOS abuse, fella. Fair

Ramona — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 18:37:00 +0000

In reply to Fuck you both. Now keep it

TOS abuse, fella. (Dude) Fair warning.

For now I will just say that

LULU — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 18:23:03 +0000

In reply to No, the situation does not

For now I will just say that Wolraich's comment was perfect, it cracked me up. I actually laughed out loud when I read it. I hope you did too. I got no hard feelings and I hope you don't either. I hope that the future plays out in a way that shows you to be at least mostly correct about Ukraine moving in a good direction propelled by good people [ which I am confident describes the majority in both the east and West] and that my dark conclusions about some of the major players are revealed to be unfounded. We shall see.

Great and timely topic Lu

Peter — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 17:41:43 +0000

In reply to How Propaganda Conquers Democracy

Great and timely topic Lu especially now that the USG can propagandize the Homeland openly and legally. I didn't expect an immediate response that appears to be State Department talking points or possibly something from the new Department of Propaganda and Submission supplied by PP.

The MSM are doing their part to stir up Jingoist sentiments against the resistance in Ukraine but support for the Fascist Junta in Kiev is weakening if it ever truly existed among the people of Western Ukraine.

The Armies of the People's Republics are on the offensive after months of bombardment during the "Ceasefire". The question now is will Putin allow the NAF to prevail, by continuing the supply convoys.

No, the situation does not

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 07:23:24 +0000

In reply to Even if the “absurdist left”

No, the situation does not "promise to get worse" - it is relatively stable, despite the presence of a few Russian troops and armaments in a very tiny portion of the country. This is the dark gloomy crystal-ball gazing I was referring to.

I've no idea where you got "violent coup", but the president's house wasn't stormed by troops - Yanukovych slipped out and fled to Russia in the middle of the night. And he seemed to have started shooting at protesters early on, so I think he shares some responsibility for the violence.

You can try to compare Crimean secession with the South, but the Southern secession didn't start with Britain or France occupying Georgia with "little green men", though perhaps there can be some analogy to purging Tatars and importing & denying black slaves their rights but I doubt it - maybe the way we stole Texas sending in armed regiments supplied by the US across the border is a closer analogy. In any case, even Yanukovych asked Putin to give it back and lobbied against secession efforts during chaos, and typically a problem with territory is resolved better by appeal to the UN and international law, not an Iraq land grab in Kuwait with a post facto quick referendum.

Re: talk about ultra-right wing nationalists and Nazi symbolism, this is a pathetic minority of anything going on, and has been trumped up ad nauseum - even the famed troops with insignia seem to be max 200. In any case, I'd rather see them contained inside an EU democratic framework than running loose with Zhirinovsky and all the other arch-conservative imperialist Russia revanchists that that country is populated with, including their dreamy nostalgia for the Stalin and Catherine the Great days back when they carried out their worst excesses against Ukrainians and Tatars.

Cursing has been restrained in this message, and I have dutifully washed out my mouth/fingers with soap.

Fair enough.

LULU — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:12:41 +0000

In reply to Fuck you both. Now keep it

Fair enough.

Fuck you both. Now keep it

Michael Wolraich — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:01:39 +0000

In reply to Even if the “absurdist left”

Fuck you both. Now keep it classy, please.

Even if the “absurdist left”

LULU — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:30:00 +0000

In reply to Are you still beating this

Even if the “absurdist left” is a special category of the ‘left’ which you can somehow identify, I believe that the idea that politically left leaning people in the West are “hoping” for a Ukrainian meltdown is slanderously wrong. If by “the only excitement” you are referring to the fighting in that country, you are demonstrably wrong.

If you think that Ukraine has ‘moved on”, you are again wrong for at least a very significant part of the country and I think for all of it. The political infighting, the economic crisis brought to a head by the coup, the various outside interferences, as well as the actual combat, are continuing and only promise to get worse.

You are probably correct that the Russians released the recording of Nuland’s remarks, I'm fairly sure that Kerry or even Nuland's old boss Hillary didn't release them. So what? How does that play to the significance of those remarks one way or the other whatever their significance may be?

The annexing of Crimea can be looked at in various ways. One is the way you suggested in arguments about secession of the South in the USA that led to our Civil War when you suggested that it was justified for a state to go its own way if that was the wish of its people.

The idea that the U.S. even has a coherent foreign policy seems absurd on its face and your assertion that our actions in Ukraine can, at this point in time, be considered “the only successful US diplomatic operation of the last 15 years" is at the very best a conclusion about a ’success’ that is yet to be evident unless you believe that another country in a ruinous state is what was intended from the beginning. That might be a reasonable thing to believe about policies as they have played out other places such as Syria but I think in Ukraine it was mostly a combination of wanting to encroach on Russia with NATO by some and the hope of others to swap one set of oligarchs for another thereby redirecting whatever profit could be squeezed from that country away from Russian and to Westerners.

To your previous assertion that ultra-right wing nationalists who adhere to Nazi symbolism and worship of fascist heroes and fascist ideology were not driving forces in turning the political demonstrations into a violent coup but were only a tiny insignificant element of the crowds, I suggest a simple exercise. I suggest you simply look at the overwhelming evidence and then, just as a start, try your best to say, Donald is a duck, Donald is a duck. It aint that hard to swallow the truth unless of course, it has been covered in crap.

As to your adolescent sounding suggestion that I “get a fucking life”, [and I suppose all the “Poor little f-tards on the left” are included] I have only the childish retort of ‘Fuck You’. [And the horse you rode in on]

I have a mute button on my

Richard Day — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 17:52:23 +0000

In reply to How Propaganda Conquers Democracy

I have a mute button on my remote and my PC.

'They' keep playing the same goddamnn commercials all day long.

Now, who is going to keep paying for these lame messages unless they are reaping some profits in doing so?

People WILL BUY ANYTHING!

So money can sell anything including the election of some of the dumbest or evilest folks to office.

Damn, I am just toooooo mad today!

Do you understand why I never keep weapons in my home?