dagblog - Comments for "Bernie Sanders wants to make college free — and he’s going to tax the rich to pay for it"

We have had Republican

trkingmomoe — Fri, 22 May 2015 02:33:49 +0000

We have had Republican Governors since the late 90's in Florida and they have cut school state aid to all levels in half. Gave their best friends tax cuts. Charley Crist did restore some of it back but within a couple of days in office Rick Scott chopped all that off and then some. He gave a speech about how his daughter's college degree was useless and wanted to change all that by cutting humanities. That is what has happened around here.

The same thing has happened on the Federal level too for the last 4 decades.

I brought up college

ocean-kat — Thu, 21 May 2015 22:41:49 +0000

In reply to Reality check - youth vote

I brought up college education because that seems to be the go to solution from pro free trade advocates for the loss of American manufacturing. My contention was that it was not the solution and that some production must remain in this country. But that doesn't mean it can't be a part of the solution. Another part of the solution might be industry vo tech partnerships that prepare high school grads for jobs that exist in industry. Germany seems to have a pretty good system of vo tech/apprenticeships to move those who don't want tradition college into the job market.

We're facing more than one problem that needs fixing. College is still a good bet and many people will go to college. Tuition seems to be rising much faster than inflation at the same time colleges are hiring more adjunct professors at lower pay with few or no benefits. Graduates are saddled with massive amounts of debt. Educators are financial squeezed. I've seen no comprehensive analysis as to why this is happening. Each article has it's own bent that pushes a single issue. One might complain about the massive spending on football and basketball, another an increase in the number and pay of administrators. Some suggest that the ready availability of loans makes students less selective in choosing inexpensive options and colleges less fearful of raising prices and losing enrollment. I really don't have a clear picture of what's happening.

Sander's proposal seems to be good start to dealing with the problem of student debt. It's focused on public community colleges which were supposed to be the inexpensive option for less wealthy kids to get a decent education. The whole system has changed over the years and that's something that needs looking into and fixing. It's a good topic for Dr Cleveland to address.

At any rate a transaction tax on Wall Street stands alone as good public policy. It could slow down the rate of speculation and the gaming of the system that's detrimental to us all.

Oh, this is my good mood -

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 21 May 2015 13:53:30 +0000

In reply to I take it that you are not

Oh, this is my good mood - you should see my other one.

Anyway, I'm just delving into details - as Einstein is presumed to have said, every solution creates 20 new problems. Here are possibly 10 since I'm not near as smart as Albert. I've no idea yet whether Sanders' proposal is good/bad/iffy. Happy though he's introducing some liberal ideas however they evolve mid-/long-term.

And of course if you don't anticipate problems, GOP blowback will sweep you off your feet.

Re: turnout, there likely will be much lower black turnout in primaries this time around (including the 18-29 demo), and I'm skeptical that Sanders' position on this or much of anything else will change typical turnout rates - Obama had a special appeal.

I take it that you are not

trkingmomoe — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:45:39 +0000

In reply to Reality check - youth vote

I take it that you are not much of a morning person by the sounds of things. We have a student debt crises to the tune of a trillion dollars. It is time to fund the colleges again. It is time to make higher education affordable.

Super Tuesday is mostly in the southern states. In 2012, BHO had no real challenger. I have already heard from neighbors that they are voting in the primary for Sanders not because they think he will win but to pull the party to the left.

Compared to the Republican goat rodeo, this pony does have some merits. What kind of pony do you want the Democrats to saddle up?

Reality check - youth vote

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 21 May 2015 11:45:46 +0000

In reply to Well Mike W. you asked for

Reality check - youth vote was 5% in 2012 Super Tuesday races - certainly to be lower when no black candidate and 2 very old candidates running. Even with recent higher turnout, youth participation is about 18% and lower. Bernie may sew up the millennials (doubtful) but it's halfway insignificant.

Second - states have to pick up half of Sanders' bill - what will they raise taxes on? Will states shift money to college support vs. money for elementary & high school resources?

Third - as Oceankat has noted, most people don't go to college - and if we shift a significant number of youth to college, what happens to jobs that youth normally fill? What happens to those entry wages, and what happens to any that affect competitiveness with overseas companies?

Fourth, if I'm 22, married with a kid working at a factory, or at an Apple Store, and don't have time or inclination to go to college, why should the guy/gal next to me get a huge subsidy for his/her lifestyle choice & basically retire for 4 years?

Fifth, If I want to start my own business instead, will I get matching federal & state funds with no additional requirements too?

Sixth, as someone pointed out, books were the "distance learning" breakthrough of yesteryear. Is a campus-based college the only alternative in 2015, and has anyone consulted a recent study on most effective ways to deliver job retraining and career development? depending on the subject area and type of school, large lecture halls vs. labs vs. small rooms with class discourse vs famous Harvard team case studies vs. stacks of books/papers for the library vs days hacking computers vs. access to specialized campus equipment... since many people do night classes & eLearning already to get their degrees, what is the right mix to support?

Seventh, with women falling to 25 year low in job participation but pushing 60% of college degrees, is this subsidy expected to provide economic benefits or support essentially educational entertainment? (if the latter, what other lifestyle options should be subsidized, such as yoga & fitness clubs, volunteer/charity work, shopwork, unpaid internships, etc.?)

Eight, what bloodsuckers will appear to exploit this subsidy to provide rather meaningless "college" that takes a good chunk of taxpayer money? How does it affect the balance between full 4-year schools & junior colleges, and the balance between top-rate schools and more local community college.

Ninth, while seemingly a small percentage, what effect will this money have on stock exchange value, trading patterns, competitiveness with other exchanges, and particular types of instruments (e.g. fast trading will now contain more overhead than buy-and-hold-em investments, and strategies like stock options portfolios might lose some of their appeal). What will Wall Street do to get around this, killing off revenue?

Tenth, why just pick on Wall Street? How about a 0.5% tax on every military transaction? Much bigger money, and typically much less beneficial to the economy or the planet's well-being.

From my end it will be a bit galling, as I got almost no support for my degrees, but my father got GI BIll and my kids will get college support.

Anyway, a few questions to mull over, including is making college free the right goal, or simply returning it to affordable and using similar tax-the-rich approaches for equally deserving priorities?

Well Mike W. you asked for

trkingmomoe — Wed, 20 May 2015 03:40:39 +0000

In reply to Bernie Sanders wants to make college free — and he’s going to tax the rich to pay for it

Well Mike W. you asked for some forward progressive ideas. This is one of them.

With the introduction of Sanders' bill, the pressure is only going to increase on frontrunner Clinton to detail an educational plan of her own. Last month, when Clinton spokesman Jesse Ferguson was asked about debt-free college, he said that the former secretary of state's student-loan plan would be rolled out "in the months ahead." As Sanders' bill gains political traction with voters (if not with the Senate's Republican majority), the Clinton camp may be compelled to take tuition-free college off the back burner.

Although Republicans have stayed generally silent on the issue of student-loan debt (beyond blocking consideration of Sen. Elizabeth Warren's bill allowing the refinancing of student loans), the response to Sanders' bill will likely feature cries of "socialism!" and "Scandinavia!" But for millennial voters, the "s-word" may not be the poison pill it once was: A recent Pew poll showed that 49% of of 18- to 29-year-olds view socialism in a positive light.

http://mic.com/articles/118576/bernie-sanders-tuition-free-college-bill-should-win-him-every-millennial-vote-in-america

Anyone interested in the details of the bill I found a link.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/collegeforall/?inline=file