dagblog - Comments for "What Makes a Woman?"

I do admit that given your

rmrd0000 — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:15:13 +0000

In reply to I thought physical (brain)

I do admit that given your comments on other issues, I frequently don't view your words in the most benign terms.

I thought physical (brain)

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:43:55 +0000

In reply to Physical differences are not

I thought physical (brain) differences were the only interesting thing to discuss - everything else has been talked to death, including social indoctrination of women, lack of opportunity, bias, etc. I didn't phrase anything as "the norm" or "the standard" or even "defect" rather than "what can we do better?"

But thanks for staying on my ass to be contrary and try to shut me down whatever I write - everyone can use an enforcer - you're a real joy to be around. Guess terms of the discussion have to be yours.

[more I'd say that no women showing up for this joyless conversation signifies it went aground pretty quickly]

Physical differences are not

rmrd0000 — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:02:51 +0000

In reply to 3 of the most important

Physical differences are not under discussion. Curiosity about the world includes evaluating the bias noted in some fields of study. Women and minorities were largely excluded from medicine, for example. The opinion cloaked as science justified the exclusion. The male chauvinist attitude shown by a Nobel Prize winner is not uncommon. How many women are discouraged from advancing in science because of bias?

Regarding sciences dependent spatial orientation, there is overlap with many women doing "as well as" men. What are the structural characteristics and genetics of these women? Could it be that these women have the same brain structures as other women but faced encouragement in pursuing an interest in science? Did they merely play catch with their parents as children to enhance spatial orientation?

Part of the subtle bias is that much of the focus is on what is the "defect" that causes decreased spatial orientation in women. Males are much more likely to develop autism. Male brain are considered the norm so the query is not generally about why is the male brain defective, instead it is the standard.

The subtle bias about things like spatial orientation in women will have some finding that the women in their lives all have poor spatial orientation skills.

3 of the most important

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 06:16:55 +0000

In reply to Structure differences may or

3 of the most important scientists of the last century included Lise Meitner who discovered fusion (without being allowed a paying position, the woman who discovered jumping genes, and Marie Curie. I'm not arguing at all about whether women can excel in science. I'm noting that there are typically mild structural brain differences, and that typically evolution changes structure for an evolutionary (not logical human) reason, and those differences should be better understood. Whether it has anything to do with parallel parking or bad credit is the least interesting of what those differences mean, and obviously societal pressures & biases still exist that are irrelevant to physical differences. *BUT WE CAN AND SHOULD UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT STANDARD GENDER PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES* - that's simply scientific curiosity. Pretending they don't exist or just assuming they make no difference is just hopelessly incurious, while going in assuming they support some specific hypothesis of behavior without testing directly and thoroughly for that hypothesis is pseudo-science. But in early days, a lot of half-baked hypotheses can be launched specifically to refute or to find evidence for - science is gradual.

The jumping genes discovery is a huge example of the curiosity of nature - what seems logical is often not at a low level, so we have to approach science with open minds and precise measurements.

Structure differences may or

rmrd0000 — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 04:16:24 +0000

In reply to The bottom line is that when

Structure differences may or may not be important. Males are at higher risk of autism. Is that because of defective structure of the male brain? Females have an increased ability to compensate for genetic defects that led to autism in males. Is genetics more important than structure? Are females with autism demonstrating genetic markers that indicate that male siblings will develop autism and structure is unimportant? Other studies note that female brains with more male structure are at higher risk of autism. Is structure more important than genetics?

The tests we have for assessing brain function and causes of diseases is in a primitive phase. There is a complex interplay between gender, genetics, and structure that we do not understand.

Edit to add:

I'm adding this article about the male chauvinist attitudes publicly expressed by a Nobel Prize winning scientist. I provide it as an example of the type of oppression female scientists face even at the upper realms of science. I stand by my statement that there is variation in brain structure that mean that an individual woman is qualified to compete at any level of science. Those women may ace discrimination. Those societal issues cannot be dismissed.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/09/nobel-prize-winning-bio...

Oh I just caught this link at

Richard Day — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 20:43:04 +0000

In reply to It seems people here are

Oh I just caught this link at Huffpo.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/09/jeb-bush-1995-book_n_7542964.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

How can the state shame a single mother and not shame the father?

Anyway, Jeb Bush is a craphead!

THE SCARLET LETTER?

The bottom line is that when

rmrd0000 — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:47:16 +0000

In reply to There is overlap in the brain

The bottom line is that when a girl shows up for math class or a boy shows up for an English class, we don't know their individual skill level. We could have a future female astrophysicist or a future male novelist. The brain studies don't help us approach the individual. We could be discourage the woman with excellent spatial orientation or suppress the man who could write a great piece of literature. The overlap in brain structure is the wild card.

There is overlap in the brain

rmrd0000 — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:12:02 +0000

In reply to More evidence of structural

There is overlap in the brain studies.

Recent studies that highlight sex-associated brain differences may lead us to believe that men and women have little in common upstairs. That's not the case. "Men and women do have lots of brain areas that are the same," Geary tells WebMD. Moreover, members of both sexes excel at skills that are commonly labeled gender specific. "All of these things have overlapping distributions. There are many women with better-than-average spatial skills, and men with good writing skills," Geary says.

Some researchers believe that nurturing one's brain can enhance what nature has provided. Consider, for instance, the general superiority of males' spatial abilities. "There's a lot of evidence that we build up our brain's representation of space by moving through it," Denckla tells WebMD. As anyone who spends a significant time around children knows, boys tend to get a lot more practice "moving through space" -- chasing a ball, for instance -- than girls do. "My hypothesis is that we could possibly erase this difference if we pushed girls out into the exploratory mode," Denckla says. She predicts that as more and more girls engage in sports traditionally reserved for boys, like soccer, the data on spatial ability will show fewer disparities between females and males.

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ?page=3

Nurture vs. Nature

Edit to add:

The specific study noting special lateral connections remains open to question. The study may or may not be validated.

More evidence of structural

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:39:05 +0000

In reply to From some study released last

More evidence of structural differences (thousands of samples over decades):

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/males-and-females-differ-in-specific-brain-structures

It seems people here are

Peter — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:36:21 +0000

In reply to What Makes a Woman?

It seems people here are willing to comment about anything but the subject of this post. The shallowness of Jenner's comments and the patriarchal sexism of his Hollywood Pin-Up coming-out including airbrushing to enhance his allure is telling as much as the fawning responses for his bravery and the authoritarian reactions to women who question this male driven exploitation/expropriation of womanhood.

I wonder why we haven't seen glorifying reports about women who have transitioned into men? Where are the sexy photo shoots of hairy and flat chested trans men with their artificial organs tucked suggestively into their Speedo?