dagblog - Comments for "9 myths about the Greek crisis An insider's take on the conventional wisdom to ignore."

They also have hurt Spain,

trkingmomoe — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 03:38:28 +0000

They also have hurt Spain, Portugal and Italy. Spain and Portugal had a surplus and balanced budgets when the housing melt down happen from bad lending practices to speculators in the coastal areas by Europeans. Their banks had to be bailed out in the collapse. Forced austerity has shrunk their economy and their debt is growing. I don't know what happened in Italy but the Troika was successful in forcing the Italian PM out of office to keep Italy in line with their austerity models. That has turned out to drive them into a deep depression. The Troika tried to do the same things to force the new Greek government to fail. They cut Greece's money flow way down to a trickle in February and the new government had just took office in January. At that point they did not have any reason to do that only to bully Greece and topple the new left wing party.

The Venezuela connections are

NCD — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 01:02:40 +0000

In reply to I agree. I'm not a big fan of

The Venezuela connections are real, not insinuations.

Tsipris also did the Moscow 2 step. His endless negotiations for 5 months and continued uncertainty are very bad for business and employment.

He has put Greece in a steep downtrend when it was begining to expand when he took office.

He plays the demagogue game almost every week, see above, and like Venezuela makes claims of foreign subterfuge at every tick down in the economy to focus anger and blame off himself.

I agree. I'm not a big fan of

ocean-kat — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 00:03:00 +0000

In reply to And so what if they have

I agree. I'm not a big fan of Chavez but that devil's mask we've put on him is silly. These insinuations only work if one has accepted that the devil's mask is true. I didn't want to get into a discussion of Venezuela when there was not even any evidence of a connection in the article.

That is what I got out of it

trkingmomoe — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 23:01:59 +0000

In reply to Nonetheless, Athens and

That is what I got out of it that same article and it was written just before the vote. It was to scare Europe to keep them in line. There was a couple more I read that was full of misinformation about this Greek government.

Greece is the first country to challenge the absolute authority of the Troika. If anything the challenge will make them face their structural problems built in to the EU and the failed models of austerity.

Greek people are very well educated. I think they are behaving really good considering 25% are now homeless and 60% of them are hungry. That 60% said "No More Austerity." They know what this vote means and how hard it will be at first. At this point they don't have much to lose and they are not going to sell Greece in a fire sale for Euros.

From your link, "In all,

ocean-kat — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 22:56:06 +0000

In reply to I could have used demagogue

From your link, "In all, nearly 300,000 people have left Greece since 2010, "

I've been reading about the brain drain for years. So is the problem austerity or Syriza? Syriza had only 4.6% of the vote and no power in 2010. In 2012 it was the main opposition party with 27% of the vote. It wasn't until January 2015 that Syriza took power. And you want to blame Syriza for the brain drain that's been going on for 5 years before they had any power in the government at all?

And so what if they have

A Guy Called LULU — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 22:42:51 +0000

In reply to Nonetheless, Athens and

And so what if they have formed close relationship? For that charge to be an affective part of a hit job, and I think it is intended as such and will be affective here, then the reader would have had to have already bought into the previous hit job done on the recent Venezuelan leaders. And further, there must be an acceptance of the unstated message that any countries cooperating for their own mutual benefit but not following the U.S. dictates must be somehow a threat to us and so are, by definition, bad guys.

Well, not just me, most

ocean-kat — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 22:40:46 +0000

In reply to So the IMF etc doesn't

Well, not just me, most keynesian economists like Krugman, Stiglitz, Galbraith. Krugman has been recommending Greece withdrawal from the EU for years, long before Syriza due to EU being unwilling to negotiate and forcing depression causing austerity on the Greek population. Surely you're aware of the standard arguments that have been going on for years since the crash in 2007 between the Keynesians and the austerity pushers? You seem to favor austerity but you must have seen the many articles by the Keynesians. Just skim through Krugman's blog for a few weeks and you'll see where I get many of my ideas from.

Nonetheless, Athens and

ocean-kat — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 22:07:35 +0000

In reply to Interesting article at the UK

Nonetheless, Athens and Caracas have formed close links since Syriza came to power, united by a passion for socialism and a disdain for "economic neoliberalism". The Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, attended Mr Chavez's funeral in 2013, and on coming to power got a standing invite to visit Caracas, which hailed his victory as "fresh political air for Europe.”

What close links? The article doesn't say. Caracas hailed his victory and issued an invite. What was Tsipras' response? The article didn't say. He attended a funeral. So did the Crown Prince of Spain, the French ambassador, the UK ambassador, two representatives of the US government, the ambassador of the European Union, the leader of virtually every government in the Americas from Mexico to Costa Rica to Chile, high level representatives from China, Portugal, India, the Vatican City, etc.

Perhaps there are close links but this article doesn't provide any evidence. It's just a hit piece.

I could have used demagogue

NCD — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 21:39:50 +0000

In reply to That is truly an insightful

I could have used demagogue instead of despot.

Demagoguery comes first, then when the economy craters comes the despotism, the picking of who gets a nice piece of whatever pie remains in the economy.

Wiki on demagogues (which term originated in ancient Athens politics, demos - people, ago - manipulate):

Demagogues were a new kind of leader who emerged from the lower classes. Demagogues relentlessly advocated action, usually violent—immediately and without deliberation. Demagogues appealed directly to the emotions of the poor and uninformed, pursuing power, telling lies to stir up hysteria, exploiting crises to intensify popular support....

As to the lies part, Tsipris and his economic team have said 'all deposits are safe', 'the banks will open'. He has no control over what happens to the banks at this point.

Syriza officials have said Greece has pharmaceuticals for 4-6 months when I have seen reports from pharmacies in Greece this week saying they are out of some drugs and nearly out of many others, and from hospitals saying they cannot restock surgical supplies. Doctors are fleeing the country.

Calling the EU/IMF 'terrorists' fits the bill for hysteria stirring also.

So the IMF etc doesn't

NCD — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 21:36:32 +0000

In reply to To negotiate one requires a

So the IMF etc doesn't negotiate and is not a partner ? Who says? Tsipris and ocean-kat?

As of March 23, 2015, the IMF had arrangements with 8 countries in Europe.link

Greece first developed nation to default on international obligations. link