dagblog - Comments for "Memes: The End of Original Thought "

I think of the words formed

moat — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 23:16:47 +0000

In reply to Was that when poetry jumped

I think of the words formed before the end of world war 2 as this place very difficult to explore.

It is weird if one has viewed hours of all the footage of it. Caught sides ways to a another purpose. The event has become cliche. Like something from Hollywood.

It is not a surprise that people didn't know how to talk afterwards.

How does one record events?

I too worry about the

ocean-kat — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:49:20 +0000

In reply to I've made the argument at

I too worry about the influence of Faux news and the ready access to misinformation on the internet. Yet for all that access the demagogues seem to have less power and influence than in the past. McCarthyism gained much more power without it. And it wasn't just Joe McCarthy on the federal level. There were little "joes" with their little Unamerican Activities Committees in towns all across America terrorizing people and ruining people's lives. Despite all the efforts of Pamela Gellar and others, American Muslims were not rounded up after 9/11 and sent to internment camps as the Japanese Americans were during WWII. Even civil rights violations and individual acts of violence against Muslims, horrible as they were, seem to be less than in previous conflicts. Perhaps there are less stupid people now. As a society we do seem to be more capable of pushing back and diminishing their influence, though I admit, I'm not at all confident that will always be the case.

Your comment about Hirshfield's poems brings up an important point. When I talk about the intellectual elite I'm not just talking about the most accomplished and knowledgeable who write the books and articles and engage in lectures and public debates that are viewed by tens or hundreds of thousands on line. Those of us who contribute little are also part of it. When we struggle to educate ourselves, when we use reason and rational debate even in as small a platform as dagblog or in discussion with friends we move the story forward and have an effect on the debate in our sphere of influence. It may seem too inconsequential to be meaningful but sometimes it's all we have to effect change in the world

Or Chevy Chase style: "Jane,

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:40:47 +0000

In reply to I liked the old way better,

Or Chevy Chase style: "Jane, you ignorant slut..."

I liked the old way better,

Ramona — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:08:34 +0000

In reply to Why is it that some people

I liked the old way better, when the comment was addressed to a specific person. Perhaps we should add a name to our comments when we know it might not be clear.

There was a time not that

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:44:58 +0000

In reply to I've made the argument at

There was a time not that long ago when a math expert would know every relevant theorem and every important proof across the "field" of mathematics. These days there are so many branches of mathematics, and to keep current is a struggle what with international contributions from 150 countries rather than 7, along with any math theorems developed through AI/programmatic methods.

The world no longer pays for generalists either - Einstein wouldn't get hired because he didn't have Java experience or work with a particular kind of telescope or particle accelerator and just imagine what a security clearance would mean (all his talk about peace? definitely a suspicious fellow-traveler type).

Etc., etc, yadda^3 Fill in the obvious extensions & parallels here: _____________________

I've made the argument at

Elusive Trope — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:28:53 +0000

In reply to Of course experts in one

I've made the argument at Dagblog before that it isn't that we are somehow less informed than in the past. Most Americans didn't have a clue about the country of Vietnam in 1963. The difference today is that people have access to a lot more misinfornation, distorted information, and out-and-out lies. It used be one just heard some crazy conspiracy from the guy down the block. Now you can read a blog written on the same topic on the other side of the country. Or on Fox News.

There is a difference between being uninformed and misinformed.

Differentiating between the age of generalization and specialization is about as impossible as discerning when exactly did the Age of Enlightenment began.

There was a time when the sciences and technologies were rather simple, an "academic" could be up to date in what was going on in other fields and work in their specialization. It is not about making a contribution to a field, it is being aware from a layman's perspective. So it isn't about Einstein's works on geology or economics, but whether he was informed on those topics. Maybe he wasn't. As I said in the previous post, I can't answer such a question.

I've read just about every poem written by Jane Hirshfield, yet not made one contribution to the critical analysis of her poetry. How many hours of research did people do before having an opinion about the Greece issue? How informed were they on global economics?

Specialization is also something that is not found everywhere. It most applies to those areas of technology and science. Go see your doctor and if there is something wrong he does what? He refers you to another doctor that specializes in that particular field. There are those who know about setting up computer networks for business, but don't know how to develop a website because they don't know the language codes to do so.

My karma ran over my dogma.

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 05:27:51 +0000

In reply to When you talk about

My karma ran over my dogma. Left with Buddha-in-regalia.

Was that when poetry jumped

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 05:25:55 +0000

In reply to Let us go then, you and I,

Was that when poetry jumped the shark? (and was it pushed, or did it leap from its own despair? The cutter fish want to know if they should follow suit). 23-42-17-haiku-haiku...

It was inevitable that as

ocean-kat — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 04:26:37 +0000

In reply to Ocean-Kat

It was inevitable that as more users entered the system the quality would decline. Early ARPNET was restricted to government and universities. Of course the dialog was of a higher quality when use was limited to university Profs and selected students. I was working in the computer business around 1980 setting up networks for governments and schools and most of those networks were not connected to ARPNET or any of the subsequent systems. It took years for these separate networks to be integrated into what became the internet. Universities were always in the lead. For years the limited number of users mostly restricted to university professors and students kept out the riff raff and kept the quality high.

As more and more people with a greater disparity in intellect and education flooded discussion sites.the serious people moved away. Those serious people didn't die or become stupid. They moved to other sites, many professional, usually with a paywall or some other requirement for admission to keep out the riff raff.

I watched it happen and it's still happening. Great discussion sites become popular and more and more of the less well read move in to join the conversation. At some point if there are too many under educated people the serious people move on. If you find yourself surrounded by fools it's not because people have become less knowledgeable. It's because the more intelligent have moved elsewhere and left you behind with the fools. Think about why that happened to you.

Young people went INTO high school during the sixties much more knowledgeable than people coming OUT of our colleges and universities today. That's why we have so many Sarah Palins, and Michele Bachmanns running around here.

This is laughably stupid. In the aggregate the knowledge and intellectual development of Americans has been steadily rising over the centuries. There have always been Palin's. There are still a sufficient number of stupid people who support her but mostly she's seen as a joke. In the 50's there were more stupid people and then, she would have been dangerous. Instead of McCain's side kick she'd have been Joe McCarthy's side kick. There're still enough idiots to support Trump but mostly he's seen as a buffoon. In the mid 1800's he'd have been a power in the anti immigrant Know Nothing party. Look it up dude and learn something. I'm no great scholar of American history but you are totally clueless about the history of the US.

Why is it that some people

ocean-kat — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 02:14:00 +0000

In reply to Ocean-kat I'm well aware of

Why is it that some people seem to be unable to follow the thread. The format seems so clear and logical to me. Perhaps some browsers display it differently, in a way that makes it hard to follow? At any rate the comment you're referring to was addressed to wattree not you.