dagblog - Comments for "Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders Tap In To The Same Frustration"

I think there are two

HSG — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:44:00 +0000

In reply to Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders Tap In To The Same Frustration

I think there are two significant ways in which Trump's and Sanders' current success can be analogized. Both base their appeal on the plight of poor, working, and formerly middle-income Americans who, over the past 30 years, have seen any hope they may have had for themselves or their children of attaining the American dream evanesce. Additionally, both are seen as outside the Washington political establishment. Trump - because his wealth insulates him from the influence of other big-money donors. Sanders - because he refuses corporate support and has demonstrated fierce independence over his past 33 years in elected office.

There the similarities end. Fascist Trump scapegoats an even weaker other (immigrants) and an easy punching bag (feckless Washington insiders) for failing to do something to stem the stream of "rapists" and job stealers who in Trump's telling are responsible for destroying America's middle class. There's an easy, but not cheap, comparison here with Hitler. The Nazi rose to power by scapegoating Jews for all of Germany's woes and promising that he, unlike Weimar's weak-willed career politicians, would do something to solve the problem.

Democratic socialist Sanders correctly links specific government policies, e.g., regressive tax policies, "free trade" pacts, and cuts to social service programs, to the economic and racial injustice that stalks the land. Sanders also identifies the direct correlation between the rising influence of corporatists and plutocrats over our elections to these policies. Because, unlike every other announced candidate, Sanders has devoted his career to improving the quality of life for all non-wealthy Americans, sees most clearly how we can accomplish this goal, and why we haven't yet, I support him unreservedly for President.

The fallacy in Goldberg's

moat — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:25:50 +0000

In reply to Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders Tap In To The Same Frustration

The fallacy in Goldberg's piece is that Trump and Sanders are not tapping into the same frustration. Before discussing the impact of immigration practices it is best to see it in the context of the larger problem of Capital mobility. Joel Blau says it best in his book Illusions of Prosperity:

The new, post-Keynesian market thrives not on greater aggregate demand, but on economic insecurity. From a defense of entitlements to full employment and universalistic social programs, any increase in economic security therefore heightens the risk of capital flight. Capital mobility has intensified as an ordinary part of doing business. Nevertheless, faced with a secure, confident and ever-more demanding labor force, many more U.S. businesses might pick themselves up and move overseas.

What Sanders is saying recognizes this larger context. What Trump is saying denies it and thus defends fhe prerogatives of laissez-faire economics.

The false equivalence committed by Goldberg is that Sanders arguing against an "open border" policy is not a part of a "socialist insurgency." We do not have an open border policy now but a poorly managed border system that is not adequately enforcing the laws presently on the books. Trump is calling for changes that create new problems of their own. If the birthright basis of citizenship is to be qualified in some fashion, what will be the criteria? Who will draft and enforce those rules? Nothing Sanders has said even remotely raises the specter of such powers being given to the government.

If Hillary overcomes Sanders,

NCD — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:06:49 +0000

In reply to NCD, I keep asking myself

If Hillary overcomes Sanders, she better move in his direction, or they may go to Trump, but they would be crazy to do so.

The big business guys who employ dangerous kiss ass shills like Goldberg will almost certainly go for Trump over any Democrat.

Feeling they can gain control of his policy and use him to do their bidding.

By the GOP control over Congress, and by buying off, literally, policy/cabinet people around him. Although, it might not work out that way.

Monroe gets it. there are

Orion — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 08:27:20 +0000

In reply to I am going to defend Orion on

Monroe gets it. there are people pushing the Austrian economics stuff in Europe too - it's where it came from after all - but it was always nationalists who won elections, from Nazis to the National Front or Berlusconi in Italy. There's plenty of poor white people who don't want the entitlement programs they depend on taken from them but are more than willing to glare at the minorities they see in line with them at the welfare office.

They don't know what they are

trkingmomoe — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:13:46 +0000

In reply to NCD, I keep asking myself

They don't know what they are doing. The 1% purged the smart ones out a long time ago. There must be a argument going on behind closed doors with this party. Luntz's social engineering jingles are not really working with the unhappy base. Fox has tried and tried to get a big scandal going for the last 6 years and nothing is sticking. Rove crashed and burned in the 2012 election. He could not deliver what was promised to the 1%. Roger Ailes contract with Fox is up next year before the election. The scuttlebug on that is the Murdoch sons don't like him at all.

I don't think they have a real end game.

Agree. Trump is one of the

NCD — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 14:45:28 +0000

In reply to I am going to defend Orion on

Agree. Trump is one of the stingiest billionaires on the planet, I think Motherjones may have had an article on it.

Was it reported the WWF once gave more money to Trump's own charity organization than Trump did?

A guy who loves money is not going to tax away his other wealthy people's money and give it to the poor.

Goldberg - routing around in

NCD — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 14:41:35 +0000

In reply to Interesting nugget from his

Goldberg - routing around in Clinton's trousers, not surprised. Sure tells who he is. And the mother!

A differential psychological diagnosis of Goldberg would have to include megalomania or some form of extreme narcissistic insanity. Guys who will do or say anything are always useful to fascists.

It is time to revert to "2001

Oxy Mora — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 14:00:35 +0000

In reply to Frank Luntz was doing the

It is time to revert to "2001".

"HAL, what do you see as the similarities between yourself and the typical T-Rump-ex follower?"

NCD, I keep asking myself

Oxy Mora — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:51:59 +0000

In reply to Let me give you some advice

NCD, I keep asking myself what the end game is of Goldberg, Luntz, etc., pushing this meme. The obvious one is that if Sanders does fall back in the primary, Trump and/or Cruz are still pulling enough weight within the Republican party that somehow the disenchanted Sanders voters would migrate to Trump. I'm sure there are better theories of why they're doing it. But I do think there is a double bank shot in their evil little minds. Luntz is smarter than to arrive at such a conclusion even though he made the comparison for consumption.

This gets at the meat of the

Oxy Mora — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:23:19 +0000

In reply to I am going to defend Orion on

This gets at the meat of the lack of similarity. Trump's followers want to keep what they have and deny what they consider ill gotten gains by minorities and immigrants. They think big government is at the root of the problem, and essentially want to dissolve it.

Sanders wants to use government to make life better for all, and redistribution---the bane of the Tea Party core of Trump's followers---is an acceptable use of government.