dagblog - Comments for "All that glitters is not Silver"

You get the last word.

kyle flynn — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 22:22:08 +0000

In reply to No, I'm a realist who as an

You get the last word.

No, I'm a realist who as an

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 20:50:18 +0000

In reply to Your unbending support for HC

No, I'm a realist who as an expat got to explain the US' foreign policy situation a lot to befuddled Europeans who were used to a safe-European-home scenario & unfamiliar with the enough's-enough situation we had after 6 years of OBL picking more & more obnoxious targets.

This sea-change was huge enough that both Qaddafi and Sinn Fein did 180 degrees reversal on their previous stances & tactics - they got a glimpse of the new world order even if you didn't.

And as I think I noted re: regime change, I thought our overthrow in Libya was counterproductive, as was Syria, as was the overthrow of Hussein once we knew he wasn't holding WMDs or any major threat to us or regional stability. Even with Afghanistan, I thought it was a waste to stay there longer than 1 or 2 months to ensure they got the clue. Why you take all this as "unbending support for HC" is weirdly laughable - I've criticized her on Libya, likely deserves it on arming "moderates" in Syria, and I didn't much like her dissing Eric Snowden for the good he's done to US transparency. But enough digital ink - you'll believe what you want.

Your unbending support for HC

kyle flynn — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 17:42:58 +0000

In reply to No, you don't quite get it -

Your unbending support for HC is weirdly admirable. I've never heard even Lanny Davis defend her war vote as rigorously as you do. I think HC is a hawk who never met a regime change she didn't like, especially when she can imagine a political upside that feeds her ambition. You don't. It seems we're never going to see eye to eye on these matters. We'll live, at least.

No, you don't quite get it -

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 16:08:45 +0000

In reply to

No, you don't quite get it - Hillary was junior senator less than 2 years in on the opposition side of the aisle at a time when Dems had no credible security response beyond "runbthings through Interpol" and no-fly zones. Whilebthose no-fly zones worked really well for 10 years, post-9/11 it wasn't a palatable or sensible choice to just assume Hussein with billions of dollars set aside for whatever including possible secret weapons programs would stay contained forever with a few jets overhead. Would Hussein have let in inspectors and cooperated without serious military threat? Certainly not. If we had done inspections to assure compliance and stopped when assured, we would've taken a major worry and security concern off the table. Did the Russians, Chinese and British sign on thinking we'd just fake the evidence and go in solo anyway? Well, maybe the thoroughly tarnished Tony Blair did. But Hillary didn't drive or play a part in the war machine aside from making some thoroughly reasonable comments at the time. (comparatively, Obama's assurance that Hussein posed no danger to his neighbors was vacuous and based on no intelligence, only a hope and prayer). The left will never forgive people for being sensible, even while the media will never stop inviting on the real warmongers with their exaggerated claims and visions of easy helpful regime change.

kyle flynn — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:33:02 +0000

In reply to "The passable alternative was

I get it. You support HC. Her support of the invasion isn't a problem for you. I don't share your enthusiasm for the war against Iraq and Hussein. Fair enough. As for Biden, if he runs I won't support him, either. I didn't support Kerry or Edwards in the 2004 primary nor did I support Edwards in 2008. While we're on the subject, I welcome any strong primary challenge against Maria Cantwell here in Washington State. I generally support Patty Murray and think she should be the Democratic leader in the Senate. Schumer's opposition to the Iran deal should disqualify him. (Seeing a pattern here?) And HC's vote to authorize is just one of many reasons I'm not interested in seeing her become the Democratic nominee. Or president for that matter. When the general election rolls around, we'll see. (And Obama was pro-war? Give me a break.)

"The passable alternative was

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 09:34:45 +0000

In reply to Specifically most every.

"The passable alternative was to vote no, to fight against what was wrong." - Hans Blix among many others thought in Oct 2002 that Saddam Hussein had a WMD program. What specifically do you find "passable" post-9/11 about not verifying that suspicion?

"156 members of in the House and Senate found their way to oppose." - congratulations - if they just opposed, I don't really care. If they opposed with a decent reason, I applaud. Also I applaud those who voted for the AUMF with a decent reason. It's not easy when you have a conniving moron as President but have a conniving vindictive asshole as a foreign adversary. The pressure to get Hussein to allow inspections was most useful - historically we now know that Bush lied - otherwise we would continue just guessing whether Bush lied his way to war & whether Hussein was as much of a danger as suspected in Oct 2002 (ignoring the uranium/nuclear weapon bullshit).

"I hold HC responsible for not doing that.... Besides, they aren't running for president." - lessee, Biden's being pitched as dark horse for president, Kerry ran for president, Edwards ran for president, Obama ran for president (and it was obvious he was pro-war in the Mideast despite that little speech)...

Specifically most every.

kyle flynn — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 06:25:33 +0000

In reply to I specifically said "most

Specifically most every. Hilarious.

We disagree. The passable alternative was to vote no, to fight against what was wrong.156 members of in the House and Senate found their way to oppose. I hold HC responsible for not doing that. I've never suggested "hanging it all" on her. She's got company. Thing is, it's a piss-poor excuse. Besides, they aren't running for president. (FWIW, and I doubt it's much, quite a bit of Obama's foreign policy bothers me.)

Not sure what it is you think worked so well because of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996. Makes me wonder if maybe you wouldn't feel more at home supporting John Kasich. He's running. Sanders voted against it. Here is how he describes the legislation in 1997. Give it a look.

Ah, more cherry picking -

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 04:58:30 +0000

In reply to The "penultimate" DMR poll

Ah, more cherry picking - good catch.

The "penultimate" DMR poll

barefooted — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 04:48:58 +0000

In reply to In defending 538 against

The "penultimate" DMR poll was taken in May, shortly after Sanders announced. It's a noteworthy increase to be sure, but if he hadn't polled at least that well by August there would be no conversation. And speaking of Biden, he pulled votes away from Sanders and Clinton almost equally, which is interesting.

Ah well, enjoy the howler. 5

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 04:33:36 +0000

In reply to In defending 538 against

Ah well, enjoy the howler. 5 months to see if it matters.