dagblog - Comments for "Closing the Borders"

For the time being, it looks

moat — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:01:57 +0000

In reply to There is talk on the Sunday

For the time being, it looks like Hollande will be pushing for boots on the ground but not through NATO. He has called for a common defense on the following basis:

Rather than article 222 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, which requires assistance when a member state is "the object of a terrorist attack", France chose to trigger article 42.7 of the Treaty on European Union.

The Guardian explains how the never used article differs from from 222:

The latter sentence means that the neutrality of countries such as Ireland, Austria, and Sweden cannot be impugned, while the emphasis on help from “member states” means that the defense arrangements are agreed between national governments in the EU without the involvement of the institutions in Brussels such as the European commission or the European parliament. This leaves France free to strike deals with other governments without any interference from Brussels.

The expressed desire to stay away from a central command structure combined with Hollande's plan to secure a UN Resolution to strike Daesh suggests France is not inclined to invoke NATO article 5.

Flavius — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 14:04:02 +0000

In reply to The word's already given away

The word's already given away to radicals

By our commentariat of course. If you didn't have a TV you could look it up and be correct.

I think instead of "given"

A Guy Called LULU — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 06:46:58 +0000

In reply to The word's already given away

I think instead of "given" that "assigned" would be a more accurate word.

Every immimgrant community in

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 06:23:56 +0000

In reply to Absolutely agree. LaPen is

Every immimgrant community in the world in whatever tends to have a significant portion of its population in "cultural enclaves".

The situation of Algerians in France is significantly different from Pakistanis and Mideasterners in England due to Algeria being part of France until 1961, not just a colony, the close proximity, and the larger influx and overall lack of opportunity. The Algerians are much more secular than Pakistanis or even Turks in Germany, but the discrimination rate is probably higher and the job situation much worse.

The Saudi princes have little to contribute to this discussion aside from stereotypes.

The word's already given away

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 06:18:22 +0000

In reply to Fr0m Juan Cole”

The word's already given away to radicals - for some 20-30 years already - they should read the papers more.

Fr0m Juan Cole”

Flavius — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 03:57:27 +0000

In reply to Closing the Borders

Fr0m Juan Cole”

At another point in the debate, moderator John Dickerson quoted Sen. Mario Rubio that the Paris attacks show that the US is at war with “radical Islam.”

Sec. Clinton declined to use that formulation, because it has “Islam” in it and she wanted to avoid labeling a whole religion:

“HILLARY CLINTON: I don’t think we’re at war with Islam. I don’t think we at war with all Muslims. I think we’re at war with jihadists

Thank you Hillary.

Since my daughter has many Muslim friends I would not be able explain to her why I had not at least pointed out that no Muslim seems to have commented above. And encouraged anyone who wants to take a position here to also check out Cole's views.

For example his comment today

for many Muslims the term ‘jihad’ has a positive connotation, of giving one’s all for the faith. It is therefore better not to give the word away to radicals.

Absolutely agree. LaPen is

NCD — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 22:24:55 +0000

In reply to From your link: "

Absolutely agree. LaPen is talking deportation of Islamist dual nationals in France. It may happen at some point.

In Britain and France due to their high numbers Muslim families routinely live in cultural enclaves, where Islamic value systems predominate. Youth may seek out their 'true Islamic culture' by going to Syria/ISIS as they feel like foreigners in Britain, France etc.

Cultural assimilation is very often seen as prohibited by the tenets of Islam.

But they like the west's financial benefits, the lifestyle perks, the freedom (to do stuff they cannot do in Muslim nations without, say - 400 lashes in Saudi Arabia for alcohol use) and they particularly like the lack of repression like 'back home'.

That's why the 50 or so Saudi Princes, from the last King's 20+ wives, are always cavorting around casinos, LA, the coast of France etc doing stuff not allowed in The Kingdom.

From your link: "

ocean-kat — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 22:00:58 +0000

In reply to He was not natural enough? To

From your link: "

His major complaint — which echoed the complaints of many of the foreigners who had come to these battlefields — was that of boredom. Weeks turned into months, and he and many of his fellow fighters had yet to wage jihad. Many manned roadblocks or checkpoints; others performed menial tasks. Ifthekar, whose father owned a takeout restaurant, had traveled to Syria, at considerable risk, to be drafted as a chef.

Then, in December 2013, seven months after he arrived, Ifthekar was finally sent into battle in the eastern province of Deir Ezzor.

He was killed almost immediately."

I think they should get a free plane ticket if they want to go. Just renounce their citizenship first.

He was not natural enough? To

NCD — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 21:47:01 +0000

In reply to I'm sympathetic, but he

He was not natural enough? To be singled out for execution and to aid assassins, have his picture published by ISIS news outlets?

The reality of the ISIS response to him and his movement would indicate he was taken very seriously indeed.

Is it natural that more British Muslims are fighting for Islamist Jihadist organizations than are in the British Armed Forces?

Why? By and large they tolerate British values as a necessary and profitable convenience, not due to any secular or cultural conviction in their belief system, which frankly, I don't think any of us here can fully plumb the depths of.

It would make sense to invoke

moat — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 20:22:47 +0000

In reply to There is talk on the Sunday

It would make sense to invoke the collective defense clause; especially since so much of the EC has similar issues regarding terrorism . On the other hand, France has had a spot of bother with NATO in the past and only recently rejoined it. It seems likely that any NATO effort would have to work differently than those operations in the past that have been directly controlled by the U.S.