dagblog - Comments for "The Oregon Stand-Off That Wasn't. Isn't. Ain't."

Ok, I love Annie Dillard and

Ramona — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:48:58 +0000

In reply to It's not about time. Writing

Ok, I love Annie Dillard and others who write like her. I've wasted a lot of time either trying to write like the writers I admire or deciding I could never write like them so why even try? The key word is "wasted". Writers write from their own experiences and in their own voices. That's what makes them unique, and if they don't trigger something in one reader, they will in another.

If you have a story to tell, tell it. Fear is the writer's worst enemy.

Yes, "time" is a

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:13:03 +0000

In reply to It's not about time. Writing

Yes, "time" is a simplification. It's the horror of self-examination, the Zen of nonmovement in a chair, the masochism of putting intimate thoughts out in public, and other unappetizing aspects to writing. "Time" is the clean safehouse version, a euphemism. Good luck if you decide to take this mission.

It's not about time. Writing

ocean-kat — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 03:33:29 +0000

In reply to While what we write here is

It's not about time. Writing is a skill and an art form. I think I can tell a good story now and then with a group of friends but trying to convey feelings and emotion with just the written words is different. I really admire those who can write heart warming stories of their personal experiences and connect them together to an overarching theme. Like Annie Dillard in Pilgrim at Tinker Creek. Such a beautiful book about her experiences in nature. I always come off ponderous and dry when I write so I tend to restrict myself to subjects where ponderous and dry is an asset. But I may respond to your encouragement so I decided to post this disclaimer before/in case I do.

If you can find those people,

rmrd0000 — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:33:08 +0000

In reply to There may be a solution for

If you can find those people, they can lay claim to the land. The Bundys and the ranchers want either a government handout or the theft of ancestral land.

There may be a solution for

Peter — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 17:38:29 +0000

In reply to The Refuge is on ancestral

There may be a solution for this standoff if the Feds make a deal with the Paiutes (Water Utes) for a share of the grazing and tourist revenues from the refuge. Infiltrating and disarming these, none to bright, outsiders after delivering a peace offering of a case of good whiskey should be easy.

The only problem that might arise is if the people who the Paiutes stole this land from decide they have rights to this land and demand their share.

The Refuge is on ancestral

rmrd0000 — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 16:51:34 +0000

In reply to I already said that i agreed

The Refuge is on ancestral Paiute land. The white ranchers have no standing. They are trying to steal Paiute land.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34358-oregon-s-land-dispute-who-ar...

I already said that i agreed

Peter — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:59:22 +0000

In reply to What's overwhelming is how

I already said that i agreed with Marshall's statement about the outsiders but the rest of her opinion/appeal was weak as my research of HDP showed and she even admitted to 'not a lot of progress' even though they are working 'damn hard'

Marshall's statements are not the most superficial, that award goes to the fringe Liberal blogs and twitters that cherrypicked her statement from among 30 others at that meeting as representing the positions of local ranchers and residents.

A local newspaper offered a less Facebook oriented and more comprehensive account of the well attended meeting. The speakers and crowd rejected the occupation but many appreciated the national exposure that it brought to their never ending problems with the Feds. The largest applause was for speakers who addressed those problems not the squeaky-wheel appeal of one woman.

What's overwhelming is how

Ramona — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 20:39:39 +0000

In reply to I may have overwhelmed you

What's overwhelming is how you could read those articles and call them "superficial". There is nothing superficial about the woman's response:

The Harney County resident of 64 years explained that she was a rancher and had devoted years working with officials to modernize the handling of federal lands.

"The progress we've made in this community compared with the sh*t we went through years ago when you could not stand in talk to a manager," she told the crowd. "Granted, it's not a lot of progress but it's coming."

Marshall pointed out that an organization called the High Desert Partnership was already working "damn hard" for the residents of Harney County.

"We are the poster child of the ranching community, of the environmental community, of the government community!" she exclaimed. "Have we ever had anybody put together a refuge plan in this god damn nation? Hell, no, we haven't! But it happened here and it happened in Harney County."

The rancher begged residents "not to destroy everything we're doing because we have to make a stand for everything in the god damn past."

"This is our time now! It is not what we did 100 years ago or 60 years ago or 30 years ago!" Marshall shouted. "It's our moment right now. We don't know our future, but I'll tell you what. It's better than what we had.

It's clear that the Feds aren't going away and they have the power. That may or may not be a good thing, but it's a fact. The people in those communities know they have to work WITH the Feds and not against them. That's the point of both of the articles I cited.

I may have overwhelmed you

Peter — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 17:07:57 +0000

In reply to Great work, Peter. I'll be

I may have overwhelmed you with my fact finding report about the lack of real improvement in the lives of rural people in Oregon but your snide projection about the Bundy bunch was uncalled for.

I thought i made it clear i support the local people, including the irate rancher woman, not outsiders neither Bundy nor the ineffective Big Enviro orgs.

Thanks for replying and i am

Peter — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 16:44:08 +0000

In reply to Like many others here there's

Thanks for replying and i am a bit envious of your job even if it is in a damaged area of our forest/mountain lands, Frontier history especially in the Four Corners states is fascinating and i investigate it whenever possible.

I fought forest fires in NM and CA and worked in the forest but was never able to stay and settle but have spent many years camping, hiking and fishing mostly in the Gila Wilderness, an untouched area as all wilderness is.

The lakes you describe may be natural water catchments or just cattle tanks built by the rancher or FS but in either case they are stagnant and quickly become anaerobic unfit for fish or recreational use, the bubbling you observed shows that.

It's true that cattle didn't evolve here but neither did humans and we have modified our environment and have to manage not just cattle but also the native animals in our modified forests and grasslands. We have to use hunting to control deer populations because we exterminated the wolf and Grizzly bear from the SW mountains. Because of this meddling with nature deer population irruptions did enormous damage to the Kaibab and Gila forests in the early 1900's and altered these forests permanently. Aldo Leopold, who headed the Forest Service here at that time, wrote about these disasters and developed his scientific management ideas because of them, Zane Grey wrote a novel about the 100.000 deer herd on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and a futile attempt to herd 25,000 deer across the canyon to the South Rim to use them as a tourist attraction, a sad story but based on actual history.

NM federal lands are mostly located in our 87 mountain ranges with 222 10k+ peaks and the same problems with grazing occur here but it is being managed. Our biggest rancher is Ted Turner with three huge private spreads where he raises bison not cattle, one of his ranches is in the middle of NF land in northern NM. He is trying to show local ranchers that bison can be an profitable alternative to cattle but it is a difficult animal to ranch.