dagblog - Comments for "The Flint Water Crisis: It's All Obama's Fault"

Sorry for the confusion, moat

Peter — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 20:38:37 +0000

In reply to I am not confused about the

Sorry for the confusion, moat I should have been more clear about what that statement of mine was referring to. It was directed at Mona's claim in her post that Snyder ignored the referendum rejecting the 'EM law' which isn't true, the Republicans produced and passed a new law that was apparently changed enough to meet the concerns raised by the referendum.

Thanks for printing the letter, I wonder what the response from DWSD was?

If I can, I'll find the report on the KWA demand for FCG public approval before they would sign any water agreement with the state or Flint to supply this water. This demand from the KWA negates the power of the EM law because they are not under any such legal EM mandate to supply water to Flint. The point is that the FCG wanted this KWA water and were not forced to take it by the EM or the state and there were good reasons for the switch to the new Lake Huron source.

The EM law itself is another good topic for discussion, I'm not a supporter of these laws but they seem inevitable with the continuing crises in these bankrupt cities who's leaders are either too corrupt or incapable of making the decisions that will lead to solvency. The whining about these people losing their democracy is a bit overblown because their 'democracy' wasn't working too well and actually never existed just as it doesn't exist anywhere in Amerika.

Name an elected black

rmrd0000 — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 20:01:04 +0000

In reply to You seem to do too much

Name an elected black official or activist organization head that you do not include in the Black Misleadership Class.

You seem to do too much

Peter — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 19:39:17 +0000

In reply to Peter, I'm guessing you've

You seem to do too much inaccurate guessing along with jumping to conclusions and projecting misinformation. In your post you claim that there was gerrymandering used in Michigan redistricting when you certainly know that that practice is illegal and the courts including the SCOUS regularly strike down any redistricting that even appears to be gerrymandering, the most recent was two districts in Texas. You then claim that the Snyder cabal ignored the referendum rejecting the first EM law when that law is not in effect. They produced and passed a new EM law that met the concerns raised by the referendum and i don't think anyone has tried to overturn this law.

Politically Snyder is probably finished because of the incompetent response and bureaucratic gamesmanship displayed during this crisis but unless someone proves he was running the clean water business and hand delivered those truckloads of water to state employees not much more will come of this political circus.

The city, state and federal regulators and their minions made the flawed decisions about the technical requirements for the use of Flint River water and they were the ones who tried to discredit the warnings and data produced by inside and outside water and health experts.

The reason I highlighted the fact that Earley is black and a democrat is that he represents the Black Misleadership Class who in many of these crumbling cities are corrupt, incompetent and lead these cities further into crisis where they have to be put under EM.

I am not confused about the

moat — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 19:21:16 +0000

In reply to I think you're confused about

I am not confused about the two decisions. The timeline in Bridge article clearly distinguishes them. Ramona quoted the article because you seemed to be conflating them.

You had said to Ramona: "Your claims about the Emergency Manager law are bogus" That claim came from the same article: "Truth Squad Note: The council’s vote is symbolic; with the city under control of a state-appointed emergency manager, the council vote is not binding. Final decision to switch from DWSD to KWA was made by state treasurer Andy Dillon." If you have some information that contradicts this understanding of the Emergency Manager law, please provide.

The Early letter of March 7, 2014:

CITY OF FLINT

OFFICE OF THE EMERGENCY MANAGER

Darnell Earley, ICMA-CM, mpa
            Emergency Manager

ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION

March 7, 2014

Ms. Sue McComiick

Detroit Water and Sewer Department Detroit, Michigan

RE: DWSD Water Rates

Dear Ms. McCormick:

Thank you for the correspondence dated February 12, 2014 which provides Flint with the option of continuing to purchase water from DWSD following the termination of the current contract as of April 17, 2014.

Following DWSD’s April 17, 2013 notice of termination of the water service contract between the City of Flint and DWSD, the City of Flint has actively pursued using the Flint River as a temporary water source while the KWA pipeline is being constructed. We expect that the Flint Water Treatment Plant will be fully operational and capable of treating Flint River water prior to the date of termination. In that case, there will be no need for Flint to continue purchasing water to serve its residents and businesses after April 17, 2014.

We are aware that Genesee County has been in negotiations with DWSD to purchase water from DWSD following the termination of our contract, and we understand that an agreement may be imminent. Should that occur, there would be no further need for the City to discuss with DWSD any continuing purchase of water. Should that not occur, however, we would be interested, if Genesee County were to so request, to purchase water from DWDS for some period of time. In such an event, our demand for water would be only for the amount necessary to provide Genesee County with water. That amount would be approximately half of the amount Flint is currently purchasing from DWSD.

City of Flint • 1101 S. Saginaw Street • Flint, Michigan 48502
www.cityofflint.com • (810) 766-7346 • Fax: (810) 766-7218

Ms. Sue McCormick March 7, 2014

Page 2

However, in the very unlikely event that the City of Flint is not able to draw water from the Flint River no later than April 17, 2014, then the City would like the option of continuing to purchase water from DWSD for a period of time, up to the time water is available from KWA.

Consequently, I am requesting that you clarify your proposal for the City of Flint to continue purchasing water from DWSD under the following scenarios:

• Flint, upon the request of Genesee County, purchases water for sale to Genesee
      County for up to 3 years, beginning April 17, 2014, in an amount approximately
      50% of the volume currently purchased by the City;

• Flint purchases water from DWSD in approximately the same volume as
      currently, for up to 3 years, beginning April 17,2014, with the ability to reduce
      that volume by up to 50% during that period, upon 30 days notice to DWSD

• Flint purchases water from DWSD in approximately the same volume as
      currently, for up to 3 years, beginning April 17, 2014, with the ability to reduce
      that volume by up to 50% during that period, upon 30 days notice to DWSD, and
      further, to terminate the reduced volume purchase should Genesee County and
      DWSD reach an agreement whereby Genesee County directly purchases water
      from DWSD.

Thank you and please contact me if you have any questions. I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,

Emergency Manager City of Flint

By the way, the problem of corrosion control and the conflicts between Flint and DWSD are also in the article.

I think you're confused about

Peter — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:13:48 +0000

In reply to Well I did look for evidence

I think you're confused about these two separate but connected decisions. The first was to switch to the new KWA water supply, when it became available and it was approved by everyone involved and the KWA required the FCG to publicly vote their support for the project, something neither the EM nor the state could force or change, even if the FCG had rejected the switch in water source.

The second decision, to use Flint River water was made by EM Earley over the objections of the FCG, I haven't seen what options they were offering for a temporary water supply when DWSD cut off their water or if there was a recorded vote on this decision.

I think the counteroffer from DWSD came after these decisions were finalized and approved by the state with the option for DWSD to make a final offer that was rejected. I can't download the letter Earley wrote and would appreciate a summary but there had already been bad blood between these two cities over this issue that i first read about in 2013. This is when the conspiracy theories began about the state Republicans scheming to bankrupt the already bankrupt DWSD by disconnecting one of their larger customers, Flint.

You will notice that DWSD never offered to lower their price much, overpriced would be more accurate, when Flint requested relief from them before the decision to switch to the KWA was finalized and they used the media and threatened court action to protect their control over who supplied Flint with water.

Again, the timeline is documented and the decisions are dated, I do contest the speculation, accusations and conclusions Mona and others have made about the reasons and intent of those people involved in this crisis. The poor response to the lead leaching problem caused by the missing corrosion control is another separate but connected subject.

Well, rmrd0000's link citing

moat — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 00:39:08 +0000

In reply to Thanks, moat. That should

Well, rmrd0000's link citing the same letter I did clearly shows how fallout from the Emergency Manager position is an issue on to itself. During my journey through freeper land, I learned that the creation of the job is considered to be entirely the result of corruption on the part of Democratic officials and representatives.

Being completely wrong about any particular claim won't stop that narrative. It is not a research project for them.

Thanks, moat. That should

Ramona — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 22:20:39 +0000

In reply to Well I did look for evidence

Thanks, moat. That should settle it, right?

Right?

Well I did look for evidence

moat — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:43:05 +0000

In reply to No, I am challenging Ramona's

Well I did look for evidence for your argument and I did find statements similar to yours at Free Republic but when I followed the links down regarding the limitations Earley faced, they keep being countered by such things as the letter he wrote turning down the interim proposal from the Detroit Water and Sewer Department:

Following DWSD’s April 17, 2013 notice of termination of the water service contract between the City of Flint and DWSD, the City of Flint has actively pursued using the Flint River as a temporary water source while the KWA pipeline is being constructed. We expect that the Flint Water Treatment Plant will
be fully operational and capable of treating Flint River water prior to the date of termination. In that case, there will be no need for Flint to continue purchasing water to serve its residents and businesses after April 17, 2014.

If you are actually interested in challenging the detailed timeline provided by the Bridge article, telling people to Google it is not going to get the job done.

Here is the letter sent by

rmrd0000 — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 19:36:54 +0000

In reply to If you read the quote by

Here is the letter sent by the emergency manager rebuffing the Detroit Water System's offer.

http://www.eclectablog.com/2016/01/why-is-the-man-most-to-blame-for-the-...

You pathetically go from saying the city council had control to saying that the emergency manager had control. The emergency manager was appointed by the Governor. Democrats in the legislature wanted the ex-Flint emergency manager who is now the current emergency manager of Detroit Public Schools fired. They sent that statement to the Governor in October 2015. Democratic Party members did not care if the emergency manager was a Democrat.

You attempt to dodge your original position failed.You continue to have opinions not supported by the facts. Your fantasies are not supported by reality. Your arguments are embarrassments.

Peter, I'm guessing you've

Ramona — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:40:09 +0000

In reply to No, I am challenging Ramona's

Peter, I'm guessing you've only recently come aboard to study the Flint water crisis and only because you want to believe what you want to believe, but there are many others before you who have been studying this for many months--some of them for two years now. If you want to dispute what I've said, go ahead, but my sources are more accurate than your hunches.

Detroit did not shut off the water without giving the EM a chance to reconsider. It wasn't a matter of either the Flint River water or no water at all. Detroit was willing to extend the deadline. It was his decision, bolstered by the governor, to run the Flint Water through untreated pipes and then, once the damage was done, to institute a cover-up and insist the water was okay to drink when that was far from the truth.

Gov. Snyder secretly ordered truckloads of clean water to be delivered to state employees in Flint. You don't do that if you think the city water is okay.

And I really don't give a shit if you call it "the Democrat Party" or if you make your last point about how black Flint is. ("If Flint was under an all powerful 'Ruler' during and before this crisis it was a Black Democrat Ruler.") You're wrong, wrong, wrong.