dagblog - Comments for "Acceptable Blacks Bernie Sanders And Race"

Thanks Moat. I had a very

HSG — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 14:17:51 +0000

Thanks Moat. I had a very long response but hit the wrong button and it was lost forever. Let me try to be much briefer. I do not believe "race neutrality" is achievable since people innately judge each other by appearance. In any case, we shouldn't strive for it, at least not at this time, since "race neutrality" if it means anything at all would lead to calcifying structural racism.

I agree addressing racism is essential and also incredibly difficult. I strongly support vigorous enforcement of the various civil rights laws that were passed in the 1960s and since then. I also think we need a renewed commitment to true economic justice for all. What solutions do you propose?

I read Invisible Man many years ago but don't remember it vividly. I will reread based on this colloquy. I do remember with more specificity a Ralph Ellison short story in which he describes being humiliated at the age of 12 by being forced to "perform" in a racist show for the enjoyment of rich whites.

Thanks for engaging this

Danny Cardwell — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 03:54:56 +0000

In reply to Thank you for writing this

Thanks for engaging this piece. I think your concerns are real. The plurality of support Hillary Clinton got from the black community in the south is a function of the generation gap Bernie faces- irrespective of race. You know that traditional media has done Bernie a disservice, but there were mistakes his campaign has made when it comes to reaching out to older voters. Bernie has drawn the biggest crowds, but those crowds haven't led to a higher voter turn out. Hillary has a lot of flaws as a candidate, but she's done a much better job of hiding them. I wrote about this particular aspect of the race because I spend a lot of time with older people and they have much more electoral power than their grandchildren who support Bernie. I sincerely appreciate the time it took from your studies to address this piece. Get out and be active! It's not enough to vote, stay engaged, attend city and county budget meetings, and force people in power to defend the decisions they make. Keep pushing!

Okay, I will try again.

moat — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 03:03:02 +0000

In reply to Try again. I really want to

Okay, I will try again.
Let us start by stepping back from whatever Clinton or Sanders may be proposing and talk about the talk of "race neutrality" as something to think about. Those discussions include legal, philosophical, political and literary iterations of the phrase that absolutely do not cohere into a single object. In my previous remarks, I was making a reference to those who use the idea for nefarious ends. There are definitely groups who claim that we live an a "post racial" society and label those who don't agree as welfare whiners. Check it out. They have groups and donation buttons.

The idea is also important in the struggle to the equal application of law. There are many cases where the limits of what counts as discrimination are too contextual to solve by simple a simple formula. There are other cases where a statute is patently discriminatory and struck down. And there are enforcers of the law who have a powerful influence on how the arguments made about policy and law intersect with the actual citizens who those decisions directly concern.

There is the question of cultural identity and whether the goal of identity politics is to maintain a separate habitat or remove the conditions that separate them from others. I hang with the latter side but understand why the other side does not. Or I should say 'many sides'. The binary properties of black/white relations conceal many others.

Have you read Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man?

Thanks Jay McD - good points

HSG — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 12:40:31 +0000

In reply to Thank you for writing this

Thanks Jay McD - good points all.

Jay, a few comments from a

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 06:56:40 +0000

In reply to Thank you for writing this

Jay, a few comments from a mid-age southern geek.

1) probably all of us want to raise the minimum wage. I think $15 is too much of a shock, but happy to discuss. I find it objectionable the "if not $15 you're wrong". $15 means $22 or so for an employer. In lower Alabama, that's quite a big spend at the catfish hut or carwash or beauty salon or receptionist or for a Web designer or cold-calling call-center employee. In a pizza place that's maybe 3-4 pizzas to pay that salary per hour per employee, and on weekdays we had trouble selling 100 pizzas the whole night in a bigger city. A quick check, there's a $40k home on the highway in Hamilton, $280k in Jasper. These prices are way out of whack vs New York or California or Texas. So a one-size-fits-all model seems unworkable to me except as guideline. Fix it by state, region, town, or actively negotiate it to get some balance. Certainly current rate is too low. But if a black kid or untrained worker comes looking for an entry level menial job, a $22/hour employer cost is going to hurt the number of jobs available. Maybe make minimum wage kick in after 1 year? Just a thought. BTW, people who are retired on earlier pay would pay the higher $22/hour for health costs - check out the current price for assisted living or senior homes, and to have a minimum $22/hour + margin for someone to check in on you or check your medicine or drive you to your appointment starts to add up quickly.

Free education without regards to parents income has little to do with the black experience, so I'm not sure why you're worried about it. Blacks in general get much more support in college, and the bigger issues are making it loan-free so not shackled for years to come, and making high school education better so blacks can compete once there - something that seems to be happening as BobSomerby tracks black vs white progress in school systems. I have a problem with completely free education, since I don't think people value free enough, and I see an issue where diverting more of the 18-22 group to college dries up a large source of workers along with military recruitment, so companies and the military will have to pay much more to recruit. May be good, may be bad - it bothers me that no one discusses, as it's a big change. And I don't see college as necessarily the answer to work preparation in 2016 when tech changes every 3 years and skills are upgraded constantly. I might be better off writing code or working in a research facility those 4 years (and much richer) than getting a general English and History and Science education abstracted from a job. In 2016 I can be trained for many jobs in 4 months - 4 years is a long time.

Re: "Predator", it's a gotcha question not designed for sane debate. In 1992 there were almost 2 million violent crimes with 24,000 murders and 110,000 rapes, 700,000 robberies. While blacks accounted for 50% of the murders, they counted for 93% of the victims. Black leaders in 1992 understood this as a sickness that could not be tolerated, could not go on, and yes, there were predators, including gangs and crime syndicates committing these crimes, and victims were old and very young and often female. If your sister or mother or grandma or daughter got raped or murdered, I dont think "Predator" would be the mildest word to come out of your mouth. Think of it as a town the size of Anniston being completely murdered and all the females from 0-99 in Montgomery raped every year. Brings it home, eh?

There was also police abuse, and after Rodney King, the policing had several years of self-examination to try to weed out unneeded physical force. Whether this succeeded by 1996 is a different question than whether it's very bad in 2015, and l'm first in line to condemn police predators and sick sadists and the reliance on brutal self-serving techniques rather than compassion and respect for the community - not only racial crimes, but 1000 cops lost their badges for sexual abuse over the last 6 years - likely many more uncaught. But does your BLM activist acknowledge a drop from 25000 murders a year to 16000 over 9 years, or is whether a politician said "Predator" one time our biggest concern?

So while I appreciate Bernie's optimism, I'm concerned about real-world context and knock-on effects. A few years ago, Alabama politicians refused a Republican governor's request to raise taxes a bit for an education system in crisis. Alabama's not the friendliest place for lgbt or atheists or even unions. What's doable in the northeast is a generation away in the southeast, thou in some places it's getting better. But certainly few in Alabama want Bernie's revolution the way he's described, even if they might like some pieces.

Jay, though you and I

barefooted — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 02:59:27 +0000

In reply to Thank you for writing this

Jay, though you and I disagree about our choice of candidate I'm somewhat compelled to say thank you. A debate among good people who disagree with sincerity and respect is the healthiest way for a democracy to succeed.

Thank you for writing this

Jay McD — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 01:57:48 +0000

In reply to Acceptable Blacks Bernie Sanders And Race

Thank you for writing this article. I think it explores well the mentality of older folks who don't use the internet to get information. I'm a college student in the deep south and I voted for Bernie Sanders. My friends that vote also voted for him.

I wish your article had made room to unpack why the younger generation is so motivated by Bernie's clear plans to address structural racism in criminal justice (ex: highest rated by Campaign Zero), his plan to give our community more economic power (54% of black folks make minimum wage which Bernie will double), his agenda to provide both healthcare and college education to all without respect to parental income (which will be a significant move to help our people achieve more in our lives and stay healthy), his calls for a change in how public schools are funded away from property tax so we're not stuck with high dropout rates while white kids get fancy schools, his proposal to create 13 million jobs in rebuilding America and 10 million jobs in clean energy at a time when the black unemployment rate is a national disgrace, and many other issues that will significantly improve the lives of black people in America.

Contrast that with Hillary telling BLM activists in October that we needed to be the ones to figure out racism. Or last month, when she talked a game about white privilege needing to listen to black folks, but then shouted down the black girl and had her ejected from a fundraiser for rich white people. Or how a different black girl asked Hillary a question in a coffee shop, only to face the same indignant dismissal. Her track record has been devastating to millions of our families, her proposals going forward are weak, she talks about surrending to Republicans before she's even tried to fight, she tells old ladies in South Carolina that she'll stop gun violence but turns right around the next day begging for NRA lobbyist money.

I want to see you publish a piece which explores the point of view of those of us who stay woke, not just focused on how the senior citizens in the south vote based on brand familiarity.

Thank you. I did enjoy reading.

I'm not anti-fracking as I

ocean-kat — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 20:40:19 +0000

In reply to Didn't consider it a

I'm not anti-fracking as I like to think I have a pragmatic view of reality. It has somewhat reduced the incentives to fight oil wars. In the end only creating a sufficient supply of renewable energy will solve the problem. People everywhere, not just America, will never stop using oil to save the planet. I don't stand with the current push by many environmentalists to reduce supply, like stopping the Keystone. Unless we increase the supply of renewables any success in reducing supply of oil will be temporary.

Didn't consider it a

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 19:58:37 +0000

In reply to There's this myth that's

Didn't consider it a replacement, only 1 way of trying to put environment higher on the agenda, get some airplay. However, many things to do with environment are done at the top, not grassroots, including executive order, ways environmental laws are enforced including national parks and offshore drilling and Epa regulations and NOAA/Near/DoE activities, plus international treaties and various foreign cooperation. Getting facetime and buy-in from the next president would be very good, not that a petition necessarily achieves that, though in this case it could show there's a sufficient number to the base to stand behind eco-friendly policy as a priority. If Hillary opposed Keystone due to pressure from the base, then other stands might be rewarded.

Om the other hand, I'm pretty pro-fracking as it's largely solved our dependence on the Mideast and Russia for now, what I see are bigger nearterm problems as we get our global warming shit together. I don't expect many to agree with me but it's happening anyway.

There's this myth that's

ocean-kat — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 19:18:12 +0000

In reply to Hey OceanKat, try the

There's this myth that's taken hold in the internet age that blogging or signing online petitions will lead to change. I don't think it will. Unless there's a change in the mind set of a significant minority of the public nothing will change. That change in the minds of enough Americans usually doesn't start at the top which is why Sanders revolution failed. It starts at the grass roots level. If a sufficient number of activists put their bodies on the line. If they have a coherent set of policy initiatives they want to see enacted. And if sufficient numbers of the non activist public support them politicians will be pushed to enact some sort of reform.