dagblog - Comments for "Bernie wins New York"

And you think making the

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:37:47 +0000

And you think making the effort to better accommodate some of the people supporting Bernie is "shifting to the right"? I thought they were asking for more assurances on jobs, wage growth, trade deals that help everyone rather than the few, etc. I'm not talking about appeasing tea partiers - I'm talking about exciting certain classes of similar-like voters somewhere in the spectrum of Democratic left-leaning ideals so they don't sit home.

While we're largely supporting Hillary's always incremental approach, there may be some places where she can break out of her safe comfort zone and move faster - obviously only if they're areas that don't require Congressional approval at this point.

Ok, truly finished now.

I'm not worried that

ocean-kat — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 07:33:35 +0000

In reply to Look, you're the one who

I'm not worried that democrats in a democratic primary are going to vote for republican senators and legislatures in the general.

I'm not interested in seeing the democratic party shift to the right to win more republican voters. I'm not interested in changing the democratic party into a moderate republican party to counter balance the far right. We've been forced to do that for far too long so I'm more interested in taking the chance with the democrats current movement to the left. What is it you're suggesting? should we stop fighting in the face of continued assaults on women's right to chose or stop fighting for lgbt rights? Call for tax cuts and supply side economics? Support voting restrictions, open carry, a border wall? One can only hope that eventually republican failures in states like Kansas and changing demographics will eventually flip some states blue.

Look, you're the one who

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 07:04:37 +0000

In reply to Wow, it's like even after

Look, you're the one who brought in the west.

New York counties have reasonable population - plus they form the basis of choosing the state legislature. Bernie winning 51 of these may not be a big issue come November, but it may signal a problem and may be a source of opportunity - how to beat Republicans better, not just for president, but for state legislature.

Republicans hold control of all 3 branches in 23 states; Democrats only 7.

Republicans hold over 55% of state representatives, senators, and governorships.

So yes, I'm interested in the places "nobody lives" as Doc CLeveland puts it, since those nobodys in nowhere land are still stocking the state houses and pushing through shit legislation nationwide.

So if we can message for small town voters, we can improve our power.

That's it, have last word if you want - I'm sure you understand the concept well enough.

Wow, it's like even after

ocean-kat — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 05:08:11 +0000

In reply to Yes, exactly. Anyone who

Wow, it's like even after measuring the length of the lines you still persist in believing the optical illusion. That big red splotch we call Wyoming has half the population as that tiny blue dot we call Rhode Island. That optical illusion makes it appear as though there's a lot of dissension but there's only a lot of acres. A 7% win is what it is even though the map looks like it's 90% red. As in your NY map it appears as though the loser won. Here's a map with the size of the win based on popular vote rather than acres of land.

Yes, exactly. Anyone who

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 03:50:45 +0000

In reply to McCain wins presidential

Yes, exactly. Anyone who takes Obama's 7% win as a sign of easy sailing would be sobered by this map.Probably the one from 2012 indicates even a worse time for the last 4 years.

Of course the problems this forebodes is not with election - Obama won - but with the opposition once he'd won. And losing to a fairly like-minded set (such as the crew in 1992) isn't quite the same as a crew that sees your candidate as Lucrezia Borgia.

Thanks for helping make my point - a lot of dissension out there to contemplate in victory.

(in any case, I indicated that upstate New York outside 3 cities is hardly as barren as the Grand Tetons or Death Valley - amirite? Note I didn't bring up the same issue re: Nevada, for several reasons.)

McCain wins presidential

ocean-kat — Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:22:16 +0000

In reply to Bernie wins New York

McCain wins presidential election. Defeats Obama in vast majority of counties.

Hillary will beat either

rmrd0000 — Thu, 21 Apr 2016 12:11:21 +0000

In reply to I don't think Quinn's

Hillary will beat either Trump or Cruz. The ads will be video of the actual statements made by Trump and Cruz. Some polling suggests Kasich could beat Hillary, but this is only because Kasich has not been vetted.When video of his crazed statements become public, Hillary will win the head to head competition.

I think Bernie has energized many older voters. Sanders attacks on the Democratic Party, the Congressional Black Caucus, and President Obama told older voters that they were dupes. The more he spoke, the angrier older voters became. The energized electorate is in place.

I don't think Quinn's

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 21 Apr 2016 06:46:53 +0000

In reply to Seems there's different

I don't think Quinn's thinking of this personally. He's been directly involved in campaigns in UK & Canada, successfully and unsuccessfully. There always has to be constant self-evaluation even if no changes are made. If you don't score a demographic, you ask why and then see if anything can be done about it. And if you want to ignite a bunch of coattails to sweep a whole party into power, not just win a particular "job", the evaluation gets more complex, wading between various groups and issues nationwide.

It's over when Hillary steps in the Oval Office, and even then it's just begun. Self-critique, messaging, execution. Lather, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.

It was easier in 2008 because Hillary & Bill are team players. Bernie's not, and his followers are largely renegades, either the left wing of the party or not even, independents. By a fluke, Obama was able to corral them along with more conservative voters, as he seemed to be all things to all people. To some extent, Hillary's the opposite - they can take a liberal record and see "neoliberal" or "GOP lite".

Additionally, Obama had several nationwide grassroot orgs pulling for him in 2008 - and largely after election he rolled them into his own group and they largely disappeared. So there's quite a challenge for November.

It may not be a problem, but with a 3.9% margin last presidential election, I'd rather prepare than not, and assuredly Hillary is a master at over-preparedness.

Seems there's different

ocean-kat — Thu, 21 Apr 2016 06:09:56 +0000

In reply to More widely, I feel like

Seems there's different people with different philosophies and who want different things.I'm just looking to hire someone to do a job. I've been hired many times for many jobs. I just did a resume, showed them my degree, and did the interview. No one was there screaming "OceanKat! OceanKat! Oceankat's gonna be the daddy to your motherboard." I've hired people. I didn't start weeping when they did a good job with the paint brush cutting in the window.

I supported Hillary in 08 but I liked Obama just fine. One thing though. What worried me was the way people were weeping and fainting and shouting out, "I love you." No one told me they loved me when I got the job. I never told anyone I hired I loved them. I'm not looking for some Supreme Leader. I'm not looking for some Che Guevara to put on my T shirt. I'm looking to hire the most competent employee that will do the job of president or senator, or governor generally the way I want it done. I'm not looking to fall in love and when people start falling in love with one of my candidates it doesn't make me happy. It makes me suspicious.

I don't recall you writing stuff like this in 08 over at TPM. Because, you know, Hillary is beating Sanders much more clearly than Obama beat Hillary. I don't recall you questioning Obama about why he can't seem to beat Hillary, why she fought him to a virtual dead heat, what does that say about him.

I know you don't like Hillary and that's ok. I get you want to be inspired by a speech and that's cool too. But I don't think you get Hillary supporters. We may not go to the pep rally but we go to the polls when it counts. I don't think turnout is down because we're unenthusiastic. It's down because we're winning. Hillary has been clearly winning from the beginning. Many people don't vote if their candidate is winning without them. If Sanders had truly been competitive Hillary supporters would have looked up and said whoa. If Sanders had truly been competitive we'd have seen record breaking voters in the primary just as we did in 08 imo.

Ouch - jokes like that and

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 21 Apr 2016 04:43:06 +0000

In reply to Just thinking numbers.

Ouch - jokes like that and millenials *will* stay home.