dagblog - Comments for "Whither Sanders supporters?"

Hal, I have repeatedly said

rmrd0000 — Sun, 01 May 2016 15:30:04 +0000

Hal, I have repeatedly said that black voters do not believe that Sanders can deliver on his rhetoric. When his empty rhetoric is coupled with his statement about revolution and the words of some of his surrogates calling for the revolution, he is considered a charlatan. OWS fell apart with nothing accomplished because rhetoric was valued over structure. You ask which items in OWS's empty rhetoric would not have benefitted the black community. Since the rhetoric was empty, none of OWS's proposals were taken seriously.

Sanders says that one of his first acts as President will be to insure that millions of prisoners in the United States are released. Realists note that he has no power to accomplish this promise. He promises single-payer another promise that he cannot keep. You repeatedly ask which one of Sanders' empty promises would not benefit the black community. Since his promises are not based in reality, none of his promises will benefit the black community.

I repeatedly point out that Sanders' words are worthless. You want me to say that single-payer would benefit the black community. Single-payer is not going to happen. You accuse me of avoiding your questions. You do not grasp that Sanders words are empty thus nothing he says will benefit the black community.

Sanders is not believable. Sanders is trying to garner votes in the black community. He says that he will be better than Barack Obama who operated in a reality-based world. There is no reason for black voters to trust Bernie Sanders. Blacks did not trust Al Sharpton enough to support him as a Presidential candidate. Al Sharpton had excellent rhetoric when it came to issues of race. Black voters rejected Sharpton because nothing he proposed was going to happen. Which of Sharpton's ~~Sanders~~ desires will benefit the black community? None. Sharpton does have accomplishments from his community activism. Sanders has nothing.

I didn't say "white

HSG — Sun, 01 May 2016 04:13:23 +0000

In reply to Hal, the point is and was

I didn't say "white progressives have solutions that benefit the black community." I asked for examples of how the agenda that OWS proposed wouldn't benefit blacks or would benefit whites disproportionately. You have failed to answer that question.

You did write specifically here and I quote, "Sanders economic message targets white concerns."

In response, I listed his main proposals and asked you to identify which ones target white, as opposed to black, concerns. You have failed to answer that question.

Whether you do or don't agree with Sanders' proposals, what solutions do you propose for the problems besetting poor, working, and middle-class Americans?

Hal, the point is and was

rmrd0000 — Sun, 01 May 2016 00:55:13 +0000

In reply to Is there an argument that OWS

Hal, the point is and was that Sanders and his vocal supporters saw actual black support as an afterthought. Blacks are supposed to realize that OWS is fighting on their behalf. OWS was a white read operation that did no outreach to minority communities. The failure to reach out is a feature not a bug of many Progressive activists. OWS was leaderless, and doomed to failure. They could have been taught this lesson via contact with black activists.

You keep saying that white Progressives have solutions that benefit the black community, but we see nothing that shows Sanders and his activist supporters have any concrete results. The holy-roller Progressives come with ideas that they agreed upon within their own ranks. You see no reason that the fact that blacks are not included in the initial planning stages as a reason these Progressives are rejected. The Progressives come with no accomplishments but demand compliance with their solutions.

Coming to grips with the fact

rmrd0000 — Sun, 01 May 2016 00:19:03 +0000

In reply to In other words, the economic

Coming to grips with the fact that many black voters consider Sanders a charlatan is a start. There are no magic solutions to any of the problems we face. Spend more time on working with the black community on shared goals. There are already black activists working on multiple issues. Sanders supporters imagine that they have all the answers. Demonizing Hillary does not cover the fact that Sanders has no practical ideas. Come to grips with the fact that your candidate lost because he had no solutions.

Do you mean when Clinton

ocean-kat — Sun, 01 May 2016 00:10:16 +0000

In reply to O-K - being on the front line

Do you mean when Clinton passed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act? The bill he spent an inordinate amount of time and political energy pushing through Congress using reconciliation without a single republican vote? The one that raised the income tax on the rich, raised the corporate tax, eliminated the cap on the medicare tax and expanded the earned income tax credit. Or are you referring to Obama raising taxes on the rich and giving subsidies to poor and low income people to help them get health insurance?

Is there an argument that OWS

HSG — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 23:53:11 +0000

In reply to An article that nicely

Is there an argument that OWS's goals didn't dovetail with the interests of black Americans? I read the linked article and didn't find it. Perhaps you can explain. I get that some of OWS's rhetoric was clumsy and I certainly wish it had been willing to champion political candidates. But let's face it, it was fighting for a better America. Accordingly, our moral responsibility was to work with it and to the extent it could have been even more inclusive to help it become so rather than to knee-cap and ankle-bite.

In other words, the economic

HSG — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 23:44:22 +0000

In reply to Blacks are generally more

In other words, the economic solutions Sanders champions would benefit both whites and blacks alike if we could only work together to implement them. I ask again RMRD how can we work together? I really am all about making life better for the 99% and so are you (I think).

O-K - being on the front line

HSG — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 23:41:42 +0000

In reply to It's hard for me to decide

O-K - being on the front line means fighting for poor, working, and middle-income Americans. The Clintons and (sadly) Obama have spent an inordinate amount of time and political energy making or trying to make the rich richer and the poor poorer right?

There was no big backlash in

rmrd0000 — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 22:35:27 +0000

In reply to Blacks are generally more

There was no big backlash in the black community after Bill Clinton's direct confrontation with Black Lives Matter in Philadelphia. Hillary won 70% of the black vote in Pennsylvania. The Black Lives Matter protest had zero impact.

The holier-than-thou Progressive crowd will blame black voters for staying on the Democratic plantation, the same argument made by black Republicans. Some Sanders supporters find unknown black activists who "slay" Hillary Clinton verbally. Despite the verbal death rays, Hillary is more appealing to the black community than Black Lives Matter. BLM does not exercise political power, only offering protests. They say they want change, they offer words, and lists of demands, but have no way to actually accomplish their goals unlike activists like Al Sharpton, Reverend Barber, etc. Black Lives Matter is a finger-pointing, protest group that has the same limited power to effect change as Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Sanders.

Black Lives Matter does not endorse candidates. They have no real power.

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/11/black_lives_matter_activist_bill_c...

The holier-than-thou Progressives cannot adapt. They are unable to develop techniques to actually engage with minority concerns, demanding instead that minority voters realize that the holier-than-thou Progressive way is the only way. These Progressives will find Cornel West-like black activists who will praise Sanders and criticize Hillary and the black community. These Progressives are not interested in the message black people are sending. They are simply ready to tell black people what the black community needs.

It's hard for me to decide

ocean-kat — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:43:03 +0000

In reply to President Obama's been

It's hard for me to decide who has been attacked the most. The attacks against both have been unrelenting and vile. Attacks that the Clintons ran a drug ring out of the Little Rock airport, that they killed dozens of people to hide that and other crimes, that Hillary personally killed Vince Foster, that she's a lesbian who has been having sex with Abedin and other women for years, and that Bill had affairs because the lesbian Hillary was frigid with men. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The right wing sharpened their knives on Hillary for a couple of decades before turning them on Obama.

And during all that time when Hillary and Obama were actively engaged in the fight Sanders was relaxing in the beautiful mountains in Vermont pandering to the gun nuts to get elected and sniping at the democrats from the sidelines. After barely being a splinter in the fights he thinks he should be president over those who were on the front line.