dagblog - Comments for "Trump and Consequences"

If you can anything remotely

stillidealistic — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:55:53 +0000

If you can say anything remotely positve about trump, it's that when you side with him, you know what you're siding with.

There will be no pivot (and I know there are some Repubs who didn't want to believe that.) What he shows you is what he is - a bigoted, misogynistic, blowhard, narcissistic bully who has zero self-control, and even less self-awareness.

I do believe that SOME of the people really thought his primary performance was for show, and that he would be more "normal" in the general. Now I'm sure they realize he's a crazy person and they will not be able to control him AT ALL.

They don't have any good options. This is going to get very interesting. Or scarey. One way or another, we'll need a lot of popcorn. And wine.

I am temporarily locking

Doctor Cleveland — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:36:00 +0000

In reply to Trump and Consequences

I am temporarily locking comments on this thread, because another off-topic fight about Sanders has broken out. This is not the first time this has happened in the comments of a non-Sanders-related post, and the parties involved have been warned about this before.

I will unlock this thread later for PERTINENT comments, after the possible ToS violations have been reviewed.

[UPDATE: I have re-opened comments, but insist that we keep the Sanders infighting off this non-Sanders thread.]

rmrd0000 - for months you

HSG — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:19:27 +0000

In reply to LULU

rmrd0000 - for months you have been telling us the black community prefers Hillary Clinton. Is the black community familiar with the breach between the Clintons and Peter Edelman and Marian Wright Edelman over their support for welfare reform? Are the Edelmans well-regarded in the African-American community? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-hillary-clintons-long-ten...

O-K - you call Sanders an

HSG — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:12:52 +0000

In reply to They are just following the

O-K - you call Sanders an "asshole" - apparently because you're angry that Sanders has the temerity to continue to challenge your preferred candidate. What do you call somebody who repeatedly denies she broke the rules when the Inspector General has concluded she did indeed break the rules and who also lies about the time when the rules were changed? http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/06/05/stephanopoulos_grills_...

Pitner is the author of my

rmrd0000 — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:08:21 +0000

In reply to Barrett Pitner, writing for

Pitner is the author of my linked article. I am amazed by the fact that many Sanders supporters have much less identification with the black community than Clinton supporters. Sanders, West, Michael Moore, Nader Etc, supported a primary challenge to Obama despite possessing the knowledge that such a challenge could jeopardize having a Democrat in the White House. Sanders supporter terms are oblivious to how they are viewed in the black community. It is astonishing.

People joke about my recurring references to Cornel West, but those jokes ignore the fact that Sanders is openly suggesting that he will disrupt the Democratic Convention. West will create disorder in his position on the platform committee. Sanders whines that the system is rigged against him. West charges that a host of black activists are inauthentic because they do not direct venom against President Obama. Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Both men go out of their way to distance themselves from the black community. Neither man can point to anything that they have done to benefit the black community.

Barrett Pitner, writing for

CVille Dem — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 20:57:29 +0000

In reply to LULU

Barrett Pitner, writing for the Daily Beast, wrote a very interesting article about his conversation as a black Bernie supporter having a conversation with some white Bernie supporters:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/05/the-white-entitlement-o...

Here is a bit of an excerpt that started with him over-hearing a conversation:

" Killery Clinton is stealing the nomination and the system is rigged against Bernie Sanders," said the two young white guys standing behind me in line. They rambled incessantly about how she was cheating and could not be trusted. Superdelegates were their greatest frustration. Unelected delegates who could "decide" the nomination proved that the process was a sham that was intentionally set up to prevent Sanders from winning.

At first I tried to ignore the conversation and thought they were Trump supporters ("Killery" is usually a right-wing thing). But once it became clear that these guys were Sanders supporters, I had to jump in. For years, these guys had been "my people." I have been a fan of Sanders long before his presidential run and have made many friends due to our mutual admiration of his policies. Surely, I'd be able to have a civil, rational conversation with these guys, right? When, I chimed in it was evident that we were speaking different languages.

We agreed on most of the substantive policy issues, and I told them how I even interned for Sanders about a decade ago. We should have been able to see eye to eye, but we could not. The main source of their frustration was merely the fact that they had lost. The fact that she is ahead in the popular vote, has won more primaries and caucuses, and has earned more delegates was to them a minor nuisance. They had their absurd talking points and were unwilling to deviate into reality. The more I reflected on them, the more I realized the key point: They felt entitled to win, and a defeat meant that someone must have cheated or that their opinions did not matter, which of course couldn't be true. They preferred to suspend reality and fabricate injustices rather than concede that Sanders has lost fair and square.

Essentially, we disagreed on what America supposedly promised or owed us. They felt success was promised to them. The entitlement to believe that you should always win allowed them to overlook how the system in many ways has always been unjustly rigged in their favor because they're white. I brought up race during our conversation and how I'm very aware of how a system can be rigged against you. These guys acknowledged my point, but it was obvious that this reality did not factor much into their thinking. They felt aggrieved and cheated, and that was all that mattered. They could not understand the perspectives of blacks, Latinos and other minorities in America who are regularly treated as threats to society before their voices can be heard. We are often silenced before we even have the chance to win. And as a result, we know that losing is a reality we will confront and that success can be a difficult and long process that may only show its face in the lives of our children or grandchildren who have more opportunities because we've spent a lifetime fighting for positive change.

These guys could not understand this struggle. They wanted immediate success and gratification, and they were not used to things not going their way. The issues and the lives of others had become irrelevant. All they wanted was for me to agree that they had been unjustly cheated, and that "Killary" and the DNC had rigged everything against them.

I could not agree, so I had to walk away. Sander's message has resonated mostly with a younger, predominantly white electorate like those two guys. Their message and frustrations have been heard loud and clear, but their electoral defeats have resulted in an intensified pack or tribalist mentality that unfortunately has similarities to the white tribalism that has guided Trump's campaign. Sanders and Trump are mining similar disaffections amongst the white electorate.

rmrd0000, are you familiar with Pitner?

They are just following the

ocean-kat — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 20:05:52 +0000

In reply to LULU

They are just following the lead of Sanders who has turned into a narcissistic antidemocratic asshole. When the candidate refuses to accept the will of the voters one can't expect the followers to accept it either.

the Vermont senator insisted that the delegate count is fluid. And he expressed confidence that he could persuade some “super delegates”— the party leaders who are not locked into voting for a particular candidate — to peel away from Clinton in the “six long weeks” before Democrats gather in Philadelphia.

“Now, I have heard reports that Secretary Clinton has said it’s all going to be over on Tuesday night. I have heard reports that the media, after the New Jersey results come in, are going to declare that it is all over. That simply is not accurate,” Sanders said at a news conference here.

Sanders then added, with emphasis, that the “Democratic National Convention will be a contested convention.”

LULU

rmrd0000 — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:26:12 +0000

In reply to Many Progressives do not

LULU

Here is a link to comments from a black supporter of Bernie Sanders on how white Sanders supporters are reacting to the loss. White supporters feel entitle to winning the nomination. Minorities realize tag winning is long long drew out process. The author of the article feels that it is white tribalism that makes it difficult for white Sanders supporters to understand the perspectives of black voters. I link to this article to emphasize that my sentiments about Bernie Sanders are shared by others. In this case, the commentary comes from someone who felt connected to Sanders. Surrogates like Susan Sarandon come across as being in a racial bubble.

Sanders supporters feel entitled to tell everybody else what has to be done for unity, but state that Sanders supporters are unwilling to make any compromise.

I want to laugh about it but

ocean-kat — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:15:00 +0000

In reply to I agree that the put down at

I want to laugh about it but I can't anymore. If Trump loses in a landslide this whole campaign is the funniest thing that has ever happened in American politics. If he wins or even if he comes close it's the most dangerous crisis that America has ever faced.

Many Progressives do not

rmrd0000 — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 17:49:53 +0000

In reply to Thanks for that response. I

Many Progressives do not understand the black community. The Black Agenda Report does not speak for the majority of the black community. Interestingly, Progressive whites acquaintances supporting Hillary Clinton knew that Cornel West was not held in high regard by the black community in general. The Progressives I know supporting Sanders view West as a hero.

Putin is viewed as a white European trying do do a land grab to boost his ego.Russian media has displayed racist images of Obama and Putin had a racist athlete light the Olympic torch. Putin is as much a racist as Trump. Putin is viewed as an aggressor.

http://americablog.com/2014/02/putin-racist-depicted-obama-monkey-banana...

Regarding Obama's record, I did note the shift to deporting criminals and how border detentions are handled.

Obama changed his position on Social Security cuts

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-se...

Obama has been for raising the minimum wage. Republicans oppose the idea.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/raise-the-wage