dagblog - Comments for "Tolerance with a whisper (Planet 9 from Outer Space)"

Ali made a miraculous change

rmrd0000 — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 13:43:44 +0000

In reply to Yes, but it's an old guy from

Ali made a miraculous change from being a racist tied to the Nation of Islam to a Liberal Sunni Muslim. We tend to grow as we age. Progressive society moves to be accepting of women and minorities in positions of power, for example. I have octogenarian friends who couldn't survive with their iPhones and iPads. They communicate with their grandkids and great-grandkids via social media.

Anderson Cooper probably reflected the feelings of the majority of the LGBT community.

Yes, but it's an old guy from

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 05:15:36 +0000

In reply to Talese made comments. People

Yes, but it's an old guy from a different era. Mohammed Ali died at roughly the same age and said some really stupid shit in his time along with some great words and actions. Tolerance meant I didnt feel it right to pick into him like a buzzard with his passing (though I'm not always sacrosanct with every passing). Sure, shake your head at how some old folks still think, but for some of these ladies to be *offended*?

Similarly, you may feel Bondi did bad things for gay marriage rights (as noted, by florida law and voters' preference) she didnt advocate for killing or abusing or keeping them from working or a variety of positions that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have, and at a time when she's trying to show unity with victims of a massacre digging int a marriage issue that a large majority of Americans supporte til recently is tawdry and uncompassionate and stupdid and petty. Cooper mostly wants his TV ratings like a spoiled media jerk, and that's now being the LGBT darling, which doesnt make him less an ass. Look at him for any non-gay issue: he sucks.

Talese made comments. People

rmrd0000 — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:32:31 +0000

In reply to Oh bloody hell, he's 84-years

Talese made comments. People were offended and voiced their disapproval. I don't see a big deal. His recall of writer and rationale for his comments seems intact.

By labeling everything that

moat — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:10:42 +0000

In reply to Tolerance with a whisper (Planet 9 from Outer Space)

By labeling everything that goes against latest trends and acceptance as "intolerance", we stamp a pretty self-assured value on our own beliefs and a pretty condemning one on those who disagree.

The way I think about it is that there are earnest intelligent people doing their best to advance what is best. They do not all agree with each other on what something like the best might be.

Oh bloody hell, he's 84-years

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:00:55 +0000

In reply to I saw free speech in

Oh bloody hell, he's 84-years old, he's an old man, he's likely to say stupid shit, I don't even know if he has his wits still together or not. 20 years past retirement you don't play gotcha.

As for Farrakhan, if his words led to audience anger that surrounded a shooting, maybe, but if it's just homophobe or some non-supportive position unrelated to the murders? No, it's inappropriate. Not believing in gay marriage doesnt mean you hate gays or encourage violence towards gays whatsoever.

I saw free speech in

rmrd0000 — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:29:07 +0000

In reply to I also thought that Anderson

I saw free speech in operation in both the Biondi and Talese situations. Minister Farrakhan is a homophobe. If he offered condolences after the Orlando massacre, I would expect pushback and possible rejection from the LGBT community. Biondi was not a friend of LGBTs. Biondi fought a $500K fight against Gay marriage. If she had won, many people looking for loved ones would not have received information because they had no family ties. When Paul Ryan offered prayers for the Orlando dead, he was properly told that political action rather than words was the best response.

Biondi link

https://www.queerty.com/anderson-cooper-rails-florida-ag-really-champion...

Ryan link

https://www.queerty.com/anderson-cooper-rails-florida-ag-really-champion...

The Talese situation is applying free speech to analyzing perceptions about female writers of a certain point in time. His response caught fire because woman used their free speech right to detail how his comments made them feel excluded. Talese later made a comment to a black female reporter from the New York Times Magazine that created an issue of race and gender.

https://rewire.news/article/2016/04/05/meet-poet-inadvertently-took-gay-...

I also thought that Anderson

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:24:00 +0000

In reply to Tolerance with a whisper (Planet 9 from Outer Space)

I also thought that Anderson Cooper's attack on Pam Bondi was rather ugly and uncalled for - I don't think she was trying to be a paramount of LGBT rights, simply trying to show compassion after an atrocity. And just like the Kentucky woman should shut up and hand out marriage certificates according to the law, the Florida AG should shut up and maintain the law as voted. When overturned by the Supreme Court, she should then shut up and maintain the law as re-qualified by the courts. Not sure why we think we can get purity activism only when it suits us. Or what LGBT marriage has to do with not taking a gun into a gay nightclub.

Similarly, thought it strange the scandal re: Gay Talese describing his impressions of female writers in the 60's. Do we want people's opinions or not? Carefully parsed restrained speech is not "Free Speech".

If there's Tolerance, it means Tolerance for the disagreeable or outrageous - even if drawing the line at serious damaging or violent or....

What great writer could have written looking over every word in case might offend some group or common perceived wisdom? Artists at least are supposed to break taboos, explore the unexplorable. Orwell helped destroy the slick veneer over communism. Dangerous Liaisons broke open the sexual codes of1700's France. William Burroughs' Naked Lunch was disgusting and somewhat juvenile. And helped define new thought, break the shock on then gay values and their situation, not that every gay was or is a junkie or as perverse as Bill. Which is kind of the point.

We are all some stupid now. Can we recover?

Gravity waves are the new

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:08:42 +0000

In reply to Tolerance with a whisper (Planet 9 from Outer Space)

Gravity waves are the new rage. Can't wait until I get my gravity glasses - better than X-ray Specs.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/13/10981548/gravitational-waves-significance-ligo

Poor guy, convoluted, a mess.

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 10:50:22 +0000

In reply to Peracles, you command the art

Poor guy, convoluted, a mess. Drowned with pot, PCP, coke and alcohol in his system, whacked a Korean store owner with a pole and tried to run over his wife, but somehow a Gentle Giant and peacenick at the same time. I think of Hendrix if he didn't have guitar skills. This is our real world. From Cat's Cradle:

“Well finish your story anyway."

Where was I?"

The bubonic plague. The bulldozer was stalled by corpses."

Oh, yes. Anyway, one sleepless night I stayed up with Father while he worked. It was all we could do to find a live patient to treat. In bed after bed after bed we found dead people.

And Father started giggling," Castle continued.

He couldn't stop. He walked out into the night with his flashlight. He was still giggling. He was making the flashlight beam dance over all the dead people stacked outside. He put his hand on my head and do you know what that marvelous man said to me?" asked Castle.

Nope."

'Son,' my father said to me, 'someday this will all be yours.”

Peracles, you command the art

Oxy Mora — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:24:24 +0000

In reply to Tolerance with a whisper (Planet 9 from Outer Space)

Peracles, you command the art of the insightful slashes within a broad brush. Well done.

New equilibrium---I thing that's the skeleton key to what needs to happen in our culture---maybe the modern version started with Rodney King, and we have been limping forward from there.

To make even a pretense of getting along, we have to deal with our intolerances of others---which after all is the root of economic injustice. Maybe this election will move us forward.