dagblog - Comments for "Identity's Many Forms"

“After we came out of the

Flavius — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 05:02:07 +0000

“After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley’s ingenious sophistry to prove the non-existence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it, ‘I refute it thus.'”(Boswell’s Life of Samuel Johnson, quoted from Wikipedia.)

And I'm sure Johnson wouldn't have needed data to conclude Berkeley was wrong. Or that when you lose your job you vote for the other party.

Maslow is an important step

moat — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 22:51:21 +0000

In reply to Identity's Many Forms

Maslow is an important step forward in seeing human life beyond the categories of class and race. From his point of view, the struggle between different social arrangements is superseded by the life of the individual. It is the identity politics of a human being that informs all the rest:

Psychological health not only feels good subjectively but is also
correct, true, real. In this sense, it is "better" than sickness and superior
to it. Not only is it correct and true, but it is more perspicuous, seeing
more truths as well as higher truths. That is, the lack of health not only
feels awful but is a form of blindness, a cognitive pathology as well as
moral and emotional loss. Furthermore, it is a form of crippling, of loss
of capacities, of lesser ability to do and to achieve.

Page 18 of Motivation and Personality, Abraham Maslow

Bernie's comments on identity

rmrd0000 — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 18:04:16 +0000

In reply to Identity's Many Forms

Bernie's comments on identity politics cements why he did not inspire great numbers of African-American voters. For most African-Americans, class issues cannot be separated from issues of race. Despite losing to Hillary among minority voters, Sanders remains tone deaf. He continues to see class as the solution to America's problems. He remains in a bubble as the link below notes.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/22/bernie-sanders-ide...

The New Republic tries to clean up his comments

https://newrepublic.com/article/138921/bernie-sanders-meant-say-identity...

Salon defends his comments

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/23/reactionary-democrats-trash-bernie-sande...

Bernie speaks again (in prntnt)

https://medium.com/senator-bernie-sanders/how-democrats-go-forward-31c11...

In the article, Bernie leaves us with:

"But to think of diversity purely in racial and gender terms is not sufficient."

Whites turned their backs on the party that saved the auto industry, got millions healthcare, and advocated for changes in overtime pay. They voted for the guy who wants to take away healthcare and changes in overtime.

But you don't have the data

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:51:27 +0000

In reply to " Identity ". Yawn.

But you don't have the data to say it's economics. There's data to say it's party - Republicans continue to vote the Republican candidate, however outrageous. And it's education - Hillary built up up advantages on more educated voters, lost ground on less educated. As for economics, the data says it's a wash - people with higher or lower incomes but same education largely voted the same.

Did those poorer voters vote much different in 2004 when the economy was better? I didn't see John Kerry winning by a landslide, nor in the 2006 midterms. Seems security and fear drove the agenda back then.

It's important we really try to focus down on figuring out real factors and illusory, otherwise we make silly whiplash changes that are useless or even counterproductive. (what do we do if the discrepancy is really 100,000 votes in 3 Rust Belt states? would we still be self-flagellating if we had a miniscule number of additional votes, or celebrating a clever, well-managed campaign?)

There was a good article at Wash Post that went through a number of factors and they were all over the place (hope this is it - my paywall just ran out). e.g. "Hillary ignored the working class", but she went to Youngstown several times along with her proxies. Voters might have been angry about the economy, or they might have been angry about transgender bathrooms. Did they really think she was taking away their guns and pushing them into late-term abortions, and are those issues driving economically-distressed rural / suburban whites? And so on.

" Identity ". Yawn.

Flavius — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:32:11 +0000

In reply to Identity's Many Forms

" Identity ". Yawn.

It's economics . If we hadn't had the 2008 financial collapse the uneducated voters would not have been unemployed during much of 2009-2016 and would no more have been a 2016 identity bloc than the pigeon fanciers.