dagblog - Comments for "When the dogs stopped eating the dog food."

Konczal makes some good

moat — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 21:57:53 +0000

In reply to Pretty good deconstruction.

Konczal makes some good points. I especially like the way he separates the topic of messaging and rhetoric from the problem of actually figuring out what we should do next. The essay he links to from Joan C Williams hits upon something that makes a lot of sense to me:

Back when blue-collar voters used to be solidly Democratic (1930–1970), good jobs were at the core of the progressive agenda. A modern industrial policy would follow Germany’s path. (Want really good scissors? Buy German.) Massive funding is needed for community college programs linked with local businesses to train workers for well-paying new economy jobs. Clinton mentioned this approach, along with 600,000 other policy suggestions. She did not stress it.

She presents a critically important element to any actual infrastructure development in the context of a post-mortem analysis of what went wrong in the election. This is not only a messaging problem. This nation needs an industrial policy and not just a way to get to a place by monitoring market conditions ala Hayek or Keynes.

Another thing that William's essay observes correctly is that resentment of the professional class is stronger than resentment of rich people. This reminds me of Veblen in the Theory of the Leisure Class where he notes how conspicuous consumption was developed as a form of recognition amongst the ruling class but was replicated as a form of life for the lower classes. And this raises the question: what are we talking about when we talk about "populism"?

Well we've gone round and

Flavius — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 20:04:49 +0000

In reply to The Blacks didn't know that

Well we've gone round and round on this.

Obama, Holder, Beyonce' and Kaepernick each caused some (stupid) white voters to vote for Trump.

As did Black Lives Matter.

For that matter, "Occupy Wall Street" cost Obama votes in 2012, I'm sorry to say in my own family

.Doing the right thing can have bad results. Repeat. Doing the right thing can have bad results.

That absolutely doesn't necessarily mean one shouldn't do it. It means one should as dispassionately as possible calculate the consequences before acting.

Were it up to me in 2014 I would have fully endorsed the organizers of Black Live Matters. .The clear benefit of taking that correct moral stand would have outweighed with me the probable cost of electing someone like Jeb or Kasich.

As expected BLM did cost the votes of some whites , not just the entrenched ,knee jerk racists who were always going to vote wrong but sadly,of some reasonably- fair minded people deeply depressed by being out of work and convinced by the brilliantly lying Fox and Co .that any help given to the Blacks was financed by stealing from whites.

Now I really am going to shut up.

See ya.

Looks like 17.9 million in

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 19:32:49 +0000

In reply to I've seen almost no evidence

Looks like 17.9 million in 2008, Obama got 17.6 million. Funny to think John Kerry won the primaries with <10 million vote, Gore with 10.9m, while Bush v Gore was 50 million votes each vs Obama's max 69 million or Hillary's ~65.2 million & still climbing this year.

There appears to be a

rmrd0000 — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 19:12:35 +0000

In reply to Brilliant. We lose the

There appears to be a worldwide identity crisis. Voters in England gave a finger to the so-called Elites buy voting for Brexit. There is an attempt to sugarcoat what happened in this election as the rebellion of the poor working class. The truth is that that average income of the Trump supporters was $72K. Trump voters had jobs but they "felt" threatened by the other. The GDP is good and unemployment is down. Trump support voted for a con man and are surprised when he picks millionaires and billionaires for his Cabinet. You cannot apply logic when your opponents can tap into delusion.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-clas...

Liberals are dealing with the crap that is shoved in their faces. Liberals are not crazy. Homophobes created the crisis of transgender bathrooms. The Republican Governor and legislature crafted the homophobic legislation. Should Democrats have remained silent. Black Lives Matter responded to a real issue. As I write this, a jury in North Charleston, South Carolina is deadlocked in a case where a police officer shoot a black man in the back 5 times and tried to plant evidence. That is an action taken by our fellow citizens. Eric Garner died because he sold loose cigarettes. Our fellow citizens found nothing wrong with that. Liberals are not doing identity politics, they are doing justice.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2016/12/walterscott-jury-deadlock-m...

A large chunk of white voters are not with us now. A large chunk of white voters left the Democrats after the Civil Rights bills. The abandonment of the Democratic Party happened overnight in both cases. Democrats are going to try to save Social Security, Medicare, and Obamacare. A large chunk of white voters will not stand up to defend these programs. Instead, they will let Trump have his first 100 days to do his damage.

I don't see the Trump supporters coming back if Democrats push minorities and LGBT people under the bus.Trevor Noah had an interesting interview with Tomi Lahren, a young Conservative on the "Daily Show". Noah asked what the proper method of complaining against the system is allowable by a black person. Lohren objected to Black Lives Matter as fomenting violence by public protests. Colin Kaepernick remaining on one knee is not acceptable because he is insulting the troops. There is no acceptable form of protest. Basically, we should all shut up. Trump supporters are angry. They won and they are still angry. I pointed out the outburst by Trump supporters at Starbucks. Michael's and on a Delta flight. Trump supporters emboldened. In the Michael's incident, a white woman did speak and. She also recorded the incident. We need to have each other's backs because a sizeable portion of the country is delusional.

Tomi Lahren

http://time.com/4587240/trevor-noah-tomi-lahren-daily-show-interview/

Micheal's

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/racist-pro-trump-tirade-over-bag_us_...

Delta

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/delta-bans-trump-supporter_us_583ce5...

I've seen almost no evidence

ocean-kat — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 18:12:15 +0000

In reply to Only about half the country

I've seen almost no evidence that Sanders drew in non voters. In 08 both Hillary and Obama got about 17 million votes. Almost a dead heat. In 16 Hillary got about the same, 17 million votes. Sanders got 13 million. 4 million less people voted in the 2016 democratic primary and you're claiming Sanders drew in non voters. The numbers make that supposition extremely unlikely.

Brilliant. We lose the

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 18:12:14 +0000

In reply to People are labeled. The

Brilliant. We lose the Presidency, the next 2-3 or maybe 4 Supreme Court picks and control of the Senate so we can call out "evil" over a dozen trangender bathroom passes? What're our priorities? All those police attacks on blacks tha would have been high priority under Clinton are just "law and order" under Trump, as just one of so many things that needed to be done. I'm destroyed - I don't know how to take all this. All our get out the vote just brought out more people pissed at us. what good does that do?

Labeling has worked well for

NCD — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 17:35:23 +0000

In reply to I object to the term. It

Labeling has worked well for Republicans. Crooked, Kenyan usurper, worse than slavery, (not) Real Americans, rigged, promoters vote fraud, weak, imperial presidency, baby killers, sharia enablers, rape your daughter enablers, death panels, terrorist consorters, gun grabbers, ACORN frauders, job destroyers...

Democrats likely need to do more of it. Facts and policy haven't stirred almost half the electorate to bother to vote. The GOP language gets every rube and bigot out from under every rock.

People are labeled. The

rmrd0000 — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 16:44:59 +0000

In reply to I object to the term. It

People are labeled. The entire state of North Carolina is targeted when people and corporations boycott the state because of the legalized homophobia. Reverend William Barber lives in North Carolina and does not object to Bruce Springsteen's canceling a concert or corporate threats to boycott the state.

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/18/this_is_not_a_bathroom_bill

It appears that the people of North Carolina acted to remove the homophobic label by voting the Governor who signed anti-Gay legislation out of office. The Governor is objecting to the election results.

http://www.newsweek.com/north-carolina-governor-recount-changing-south-5...

Pointing out homophobia in the Black community led to the first Black President speaking out. The Black community seemed to look inward and some hearts changed. Calling out homophobia in North Carolina seems to have helped voters reject a homophobe.

Naming evil is important. We should not sanitize evil. The media is trying to normalize Trump and that is dangerous. The term alt-right is a sanitation term. The alt-right is a civil term for white supremacists like Steve Bannon, Trump's senior adviser. We have to name evil.

Does this mean you can also

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 12:55:57 +0000

In reply to So it's not so much about

Does this mean you can also find common ground with "centrists", "neoliberal" Democrats, or is that a bridge too far?

Only about half the country

trkingmomoe — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:09:36 +0000

In reply to When the dogs stopped eating the dog food.

Only about half the country votes that could vote. So the parties try to get the half of the voters that is still voting to line up on their side. Has it ever dawned on modern politics of the two major parties to find out why the other half isn't voting and getting them to vote. This was something that was actually going on with Sanders' campaign. He drew in people who had given up on voting and gave them a reason to vote. The only way to find out is to ask questions and listen to this group.