dagblog - Comments for "Don’t Fight Their Lies With Lies of Your Own"

"Warmers needs, holes in Co2

NCD — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 20:03:53 +0000

In reply to Putin is a lawyer and speaks

"Warmers needs, holes in Co2 theories, Trump thriving on fools, hot knives through butter, Trump the most powerful man a Hegemon on the planet, losers left in his wake"

The maniacal language of a Der Stürmer, victory is near, propagandist in early April, 1945?

No, a fanatical Trump supporter in early April, 2017 trying to convince himself The Orange Furor is not just 'winning', but achieving devastating and unprecedented victories.

I thought Trump would ban

ocean-kat — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 18:14:10 +0000

In reply to Putin is a lawyer and speaks

I thought Trump would ban muslims from coming to the country and he tried and failed, twice. Then I was sure he'd repeal Obamacare. I never believed for a second he would replace it with something better but I did think he'd repeal it. I really thought he'd get at least those things done but he's done nothing. With a republican house and a republican senate he hasn't accomplished anything. So exactly how do you think people are underestimating Trump? I very clearly over estimated him.

Putin is a lawyer and speaks

Peter — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 15:14:43 +0000

In reply to I think Putin is totally

Putin is a lawyer and speaks with political rhetoric but he is on firm ground challenging the belief that CO2 is the primary agent in GW. Terms like tipping point serve the Warmer's need for immediacy of the threat just as their reliance on feedback loops tries to fill the big holes in their CO2 theories.

Trump thrives on fools underestimating him and his team whether it was the republican party elite or the cult followers and quislings of the Red Queen. All of those forces including the media were swept aside by Trump and his 60 million voters with a campaign that cut through the old power structures like a hot knife through butter. Trump turned the petty annoying tweet into the most feared and effective means of political communication imaginable.

Who is the most powerful man on the face of the planet, the Hegemon? it's Donald Trump so I'm sure he appreciats being underestimated and viewed as not too smart by the many losers he's left in his wake.

Please cite example of lies

rmrd0000 — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 14:35:59 +0000

In reply to Hyperbolic exaggeration in

Please cite example of lies and that there is not resistance to the treat to democracy represented by Trump. I think that taking the position that lies and denials are grossly exaggerating the situation. Some critics lot at the travesty of the Trump administration turn away and complain about Liberals.

Last night Bill Mahler whined about April Ryan and Maxine Waters crying racism when they came under attack by wingnuts. He allowed wingnut Rick Santorum to boast about how he could withstand jokes without complaining.Mahrer attacked Ryan and Waters for being soft little Liberals. The truth is that Ryan did not run to the media crying racism, she returned to the White House the next day to do her job. When Waters was asked about O'Reilly's attack on her, she simply said that she was a strong black woman who would not be intimidated. Waters then moved on. Mahrer made a baseless attack on the two women.

I think that your position that Liberals need to take a pledge to refrain from telling lies is absurd. Please list the lies being told by these Liberals.

Regarding scum. I include Trump, Bannon, Spicer, Conway. Flynn and others as scum. Do you disagree?

Art, you got an early start

Peter — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 14:19:41 +0000

In reply to The article is interesting

Art, you got an early start on the April Fools levity with your North Pole yarn which gave me a good chuckle. For those who don't get the joke the North Pole is in the middle of the Arctic Ocean, that ocean is at sea level whether liquid or frozen. When that ice melts it actually reduces the volume of the Arctic Ocean

If you want to flood some Russians, especially those who magically defeated the Red Queen, you need to melt ice not in the ocean such as that from the Greenland ice sheet.

Hyperbolic exaggeration in

A Guy Called LULU — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 04:44:57 +0000

In reply to I'll listen to the Gessen

Hyperbolic exaggeration in political rhetoric is a form of lying. If you were to agree with that then we would probably argue about what was being exaggerated, but don't expect to convince me that Democratic leaders or their constituents are as relatively pure as you suggest. "The pledge means that we are the same scum as the lunatics. We are not scum. We are not lunatics. We are not liars. Liberals are not the problem." I don't see it that way at all. Very few on either, for that matter, any, side are scum. I see the warning that we shouldn't lie to fight lies as a way to remind us not to fall to the destructive tactical level of those you seem to see as below us. Not much to win going that way and probably not a winning tactic either if the intention is to win something worth winning.

I think Putin is totally

A Guy Called LULU — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 04:06:44 +0000

In reply to The article is interesting

I think Putin is totally wrong about his denial of human causes. I would bet that he knows that he is totally wrong. Probably just a chosen political stance. I think it is quite possible, quite likely actually, that he is correct that the planet conditions have passed the tipping point and the best approach is to just get ready what is probably coming. Even if it is technically possible to reverse causes I don't believe it is imaginable that that reversal will be accomplished.

Putin seems to be both smart and knowledgeable. Trump, not so much. If they publicly come down on the same side of some issue I don't think that should be taken as an indication that their conceptual thinking and motivations are therefore similar.

The article is interesting

artappraiser — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 02:22:38 +0000

In reply to I have no idea whether you

The article is interesting because he's not a denier of global warming, rather:

1) as true blue nationalist, he likes that it's happening to the cold northern motherland, thinks that results could finally make them king of the world where everybody wants to be

2) he disagrees about the cause

Consider the last paragraphs

Putin had previously hailed global warming for exposing natural resources and transport routes which had long been too expensive to exploit.

He had also once speculated that warming by “two or three degrees” could be a good thing for Russians who would no longer need fur coats.

Also today, his Finnish counterpart Sauli Niinisto called climate change a “serious threat” for the Arctic, Putin said that it brings “more propitious conditions for using this region for economic ends.”

These thoughts are quite similar to many harebrained Trump thoughts where the latter sees connections, and then speaks them without thinking it through. Here Putin is conveniently not thinking about the possibility of like, floods from the north pole melting, only the good stuff.

The difference we have is

rmrd0000 — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:03:53 +0000

In reply to I'll listen to the Gessen

The difference we have is that the argument being made is that Liberals are clueless. Liberals are told not to use their own lies to counter wingnut lies. There is no evidence that Liberals are using lies.

Liberals are told to not be diverted by the Russian investigation. Liberals flooded town halls to challenge draconian Republican plans for health care. Liberals are mounting protests on multiple fronts. I don't see that Liberals are blind to threats

.Republicans control D.C. Liberals mount protests. What does Gessen not see happening given the political reality? Why does she think Liberals are distracted?

Edit to add:

The Russia investigation has a prominent role because it seems the most likely way that Trump's assault on demoocracy can be slowed down.

It's true that few of us are

ocean-kat — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 23:39:09 +0000

In reply to I don't need to join the

It's true that few of us are able to understand the complex data from scientific papers. We have to find those we accept as knowledgeable authorities and the simplified stories we get from them. When 97% of scientists come to the same conclusions with only minor quibbling on details knowledgeable authorities are not hard to find. Those who attempt to deny have to rely on claims of some conspiracy among tens of thousands of scientists and every major scientific institution in the world. Trump goes even deeper into the rabbit hole by claiming it's a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese to destroy our economy.

The clearest analogy to what we see now is the argument some 50 years ago over smoking. 97% of doctors and scientists saw overwhelming evidence that smoking caused and contributed to lung cancer. Most of the 3% that disagreed were employed by cigarette companies, just as now most of the scientists that deny Climate Change work for oil companies. It seems silly now when virtually everyone accepts the reality of the link between smoking and lung cancer but it wasn't then. It was a long hard fight to get the public to accept that fact.

It should be obvious what's happening here when one side is putting out data in peer reviewed journals to be challenged by other scientists and the other side is attempting to suppress that data rather than argue against it. The examples of this attempt to suppress the information are numerous but I'll include just one. I originally had planned on including information on the shrinking and disappearing glaciers in Glacier National Park. There was a government site that contained dozens of photos from the early 1900's with comparison photos taken in the last decade from the same spot at the same time of year. Just as comparison photos from the Trump inaugural crowd and the Obama crowd quickly showed the Trump lie these glacial photos quickly showed the changes from global warming. The images were so powerful that I saved the link in my favorites. I was surprised, or not surprised at all in the Trump era, to discover yesterday the pages taken down.

For more comparison photos, go to http://www.nrmsc.usgs.gov/repeatphoto/