dagblog - Comments for "Maleing it in: Masculine Mystique & the Savior Complex"

I needed to read something

Danny Cardwell — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 12:53:50 +0000

In reply to Maleing it in: Masculine Mystique & the Savior Complex

I needed to read something like this on a Monday! Great job!

Just plopping without comment

artappraiser — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:13:58 +0000

In reply to Maleing it in: Masculine Mystique & the Savior Complex

Just plopping without comment: Hillary recently mentioned this sort related meme in jher interview with Kristof from his April 8 NYT op-ed summarizing:

Now she’s out of her shell, freed by defeat, and far more willing to speak bluntly.

“Certainly misogyny played a role” in her loss, she said. “That just has to be admitted.”

She noted the abundant social science research that when men are ambitious and successful, they may be perceived as more likable. In contrast, for women in traditionally male fields, it’s a trade-off: The more successful or ambitious a woman is, the less likable she becomes (that’s also true of how women perceive women). It’s not so much that people consciously oppose powerful women; it’s an unconscious bias.

And this too, especially as there may be more elaboration in the video, I haven't watched it:

Clinton characterized the mind-set of some Trump voters as, “I don’t agree with him, I’m not sure I really approve of him, but he looks like somebody who’s been president before.” She did indicate that there were many other factors that contributed to her loss — including her own mistakes.

I don't think I'm that thin

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:07:47 +0000

In reply to It is basically the Alpha

I don't think I'm that thin-skinned on smoking. If it weren't so deadly, I'd likely smoke myself - it's a relaxing habit. I used to take all the smoke breaks with the alphas because that's where alpha decisions were made. As for deconstructing Obama, well, no, I don't think he's that self-confident, and what I perceive is a less-than-natural penchant for it is probably a plus.

As for switching to brainy over good looking, probably not. We still comparmentalize the nerd thing for mating & voting purposes - useful to run you a report, not to be in charge or in your bed (unless has lots of money from being brainy - God knows we love that real-world business success/fortunate inheritance, however many grandmas ya gotta run over).

It is basically the Alpha

artappraiser — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:45:10 +0000

In reply to Maleing it in: Masculine Mystique & the Savior Complex

It is basically the Alpha Male thing. Short or fat or pear-shaped geeky or shy men have to prepare more too. Tall, deep, relaxed, dominant with deep voice and broad shoulders wins, is top dog. There are tons of dating advice videos on You Tube on how to be like "George Clooney" to get women and basically be a winner in everything else, even explaining how George Clooney himself wasn't like that but trained himself to be this Alpha. Including specifics about how to present with shoulders looking broad, body language, easy languid walk, giving off the air of not having to defend oneself, not saying too much, etc. etc..

And yes we are all, or most of us are, complicit in being affected by the "mystique", it's probably still a genetic response for some of us to give such types preference. Though we're probably in the midst of changing that preference to high intelligence over height, confidence, broad shoulders and geniality.

Yes, it's the Tony Robbins thing, and that's why my reaction when I see him doing his pep talk shlock has always been to roll my eyes and I wanna puke: easy for you to say, you're a tall man with broad shoulders and a deep voice. Some would add "white" to the tall, and while I would agree that colored skin is negative factor, it doesn't always hurt that much if you've got all the other factors. Obama is a preparer but I'd venture a guess he could easily not just pass without preparation but present as powerful just because he has the "right stuff."

Mentioning Obama brings this up: within possible Alpha-dom, there are at least two types: those built for it and those not, they are laid out in that old simplistic Type A vs. Type B personality theory. We all know of men who have all the physical attributes to be able to schmooze their way to status, fortune and fame Tony Robbins style, but instead worry themselves to death. So even being gifted with the right physical stuff is not enough. You've got to have the right nervous system, too. I'd venture a guess that Obama is the preparing type because: he'd have an anxiety attack if he didn't.

Edit to add: to me, no coincidence Obama was a smoker who had a hard time giving it up. But that's a whole nother thing I'd rather not get into with you as I know your feelings about the habit from other posts of yours. Just suffice it to day it's an indicator of someone who needs to have nerves calmed.

My Magic vs. The Bird may not

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 08:44:08 +0000

In reply to Maleing it in: Masculine Mystique & the Savior Complex

My Magic vs. The Bird may not be the best example, noting a HuffPost piece on Chris Schilling where "Natural Talent vs. Works Hard" is often a racist meme, whereby black athletes have it easy, gifted natives and all, while white athletes have to practice and show the right stuff to get where they are.

Still, I think in other situations in politics and business, it's that tall youthful photogenic leading man that shows up to make it all right, and everything out of his mouth is golden until he screws up & is given a golden parachute to CEO another company. What with all the Venture Capitalist money and dog-and-pony shows, it's becoming a given that those fresh mid-to-late 20-somethings are the vanguards of the future, however bleak that might be if this persists. Experience in IT? pshaw.

As the saying goes, @don't

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:17:15 +0000

In reply to They not only no longer have

As the saying goes, @don't just do something, stand there'.

Yes, supermom complex, congrats, you now get to work twice as hard (but at least you survived)

Bill Gates is certainly more attractive now than in his teens.

They not only no longer have

CVille Dem — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:46:39 +0000

In reply to Leaders no longer have to

They not only no longer have to lead...they can say and do, and tweet idiotic BS on a daily basis; but let them (him) to one thing that seems halfway humanly sensible, and POOOF! He is presidential. He has changed, pivoted, suddenly has a "view," a "plan," maybe even a "doctrine."

If anyone (male) from either party performed in the debates as well as Hillary Clinton did (talk about PREPARED!) There is no question who would have won. BTW, Elaine Chau is Asian, and we all know that they are meticulously prepared -- what I don't get is how she can wake up next to her pathetic husband, who is prepared only with hypocritical blather. Oh! And I think that Bill Gates is attractive.

But seriously. What you say is true. Men are rarely in the position of having to make choices about home life/work, or children/travel, and definitely not for household chores. Not true of all men -- absolutely, but I'm talking about expectations rather than a voluntary choice. For women not only are the choices imposed, but also the judgment of others. Many people I knew applauded the fact that I went to a play that my kids were in in the 2nd grade one day after my first breast cancer surgery. There was no mention of their dad (the doctor) not showing up.

If Hillary couldn't change it I don't know who could. But so many people just hated her. Sad.

Leaders no longer have to

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 05:57:22 +0000

In reply to Maleing it in: Masculine Mystique & the Savior Complex

Leaders no longer have to even lead anymore - they just have to show up male, preferably tall and white and tentatively good looking, and just say stuff however detached and contradictory. The machine will paper it over and the believers will keep on believing. There's a certain advantage when most on your team believe that a guy who pissed off a lot of people and ended up nailed to a tree was a resounding success that saved us all and got promoted to God. It's a perfect recipe for failing up. How can you lose with low expectations like that?