dagblog - Comments for "Trump to Hold 100 Day Victory Rally"

For all the bobbing and

moat — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:02:19 +0000

In reply to FYI Perlstein in NYT Magazine

For all the bobbing and weaving in his article, Frum doesn't actually provide an argument against Perlstein's assertion that the history of the Conservative movement must include their relationship with thuggery and the suppression of minorities.

Frum's matrix of Egalitarians = Nativists versus Elitists = Cosmopolitans does not recognize the importance of John Stuart Mills who argued that a Democratic Society was a polity that bound together diverse opinions and groups and not only the interests of the majority. Frum confines the meaning of "Liberals" to proponents for the redistribution of wealth. I prefer my Hayek straight with no chaser.

I think I've made it clear

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:52:07 +0000

In reply to True. Perceptions are

I think I've made it clear over and over that I regard the housing collapse + mortgage theft & robosigning as perhaps the biggest betrayal of black aspirations and promises made. Besides the foothold of many more government jobs in the 90's, growing homeownership was then a step towards increased stable family wealth plus signified more staying power and control in both black and "gentrified" neighborhoods - rather than more horrid stories from housing projects during a crime wave, this was where black families could begin to take advantage of the normal boring & uneventful trappings of suburbia, some safe(r) space for a change. And then the croupier swept all those winnings off the table back in the pot with a pithy "this belongs to the house". Sadly, Obama wasn't too much a help in this ugly chapter either.

True. Perceptions are

rmrd0000 — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:28:32 +0000

In reply to First, there's no other

True. Perceptions are different for different groups. Bernie came across as updated Marcus Garvey or Reverend Ike leading us to the land of milk and honey. Many movements left blacks out of the picture. Occupy Wall Street was for whites. There was very little involvement of blacks. I commended the organizers of the Women's March for bringing in minority women into leadership roles, but the organizing committee had to be reminded before that restructuring happened. When people say they loathe "identity politics", blacks remember the political exclusions past and present. "Identity politics" by definition means minority issues are headed for the wastebasket.

The housing collapse devastated the wealth of the black community. Instead of calling everybody to work to repair the damage done, we get the dog whistle "identity politics" from some Progressives. Blacks targeted with high-risk loans hear the message, we will get to your issues later.

The GOP is openly hostile to the black community. The Democratic Party is the beneficiary by way of gaining votes. The DNC is smart enough not to alienate black voters by using the offensive term "identity politics". Some Progressives need to erase the term from their vocabulary. Blacks did not commit suicide after the housing collapse, they saw it as another day in the USA. If there is a sense that the Democrats are abandoning the black community, black voters will stay home. Blacks can suffer through eight years of Trump rather than being disrespected by supporters of a 70+ year old tone deaf guy who advises against "identity politics".

Link to article about housing collapse

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/10/19/inam.housing.foreclosure.money/

First, there's no other

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:39:39 +0000

In reply to Little 'ole Afrocentrist me

First, there's no other alternative for black voters - there's not going to be a black Bernie Sanders who comes along and provides a revolution based on unmet needs - Jesse Jackson was as close as that got, and I don't see it happening again anytime soon, black or Hispanic. As the saying goes, our system has 2 speeds, and if you don't like this one, you sure ain't gonna like the other. What the Democrats bring is largely as good as it gets for the foreseeable future..

Second, you yourself have noted lowered expectations from a tilted playing field - for example that black unemployment is almost always twice that of whites - so no one's holding their breath for many of these long-term issues to go away, philosophical discussions of whether they're structural or not aside.

Third, whites largely assimilated the post-war years as "The New Normal", whereas I think blacks saw it as a big step forward in a number of ways, but tenuous and largely beholden to organized action, and overall not *that* great. So for whites that nostalgia's become some kind of Holy Grail or gold standard, whereas for blacks, it's just another era.

Certainly there's a great deal of racism involved in the jealousy and reactions and overall level of hatred, but as your link notes, there's quite a bit of economic justification to prime those feral primal emotions.

Little 'ole Afrocentrist me

rmrd0000 — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:59:50 +0000

In reply to Wow, is Ellison really saying

Little 'ole Afrocentrist me always asks why working class people in minority groups find harmony with the Democrats, while white working class voters do not. I think racial bias plays a major role in the division

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/opinion/columnists/2017/03/21/demo...

As noted in the link, I don't see a way to gain back those white voters.

Wow, is Ellison really saying

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:39:55 +0000

In reply to Trump attracts a strange brew

Wow, is Ellison really saying anything so outlandish? "No drama Obama" as a strategy had some benefits, but some disadvantages as well. Until campaigning for Hillary & other Dems in 2016, it often seemed his heart wasn't into that party thing (and frequently over the first 6 years it was a question whether he was a detriment or help to party members).

Here's a headline from 2012 that might have been written last fall:

"Obama campaign abandons white working-class voters in favor of minorities and the educated"

The party didn't just find itself in its current predicament overnight.

Trump attracts a strange brew

rmrd0000 — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:02:27 +0000

In reply to 538com did an income neutral

Trump attracts a strange brew. It is tempting to try to find evidence of normality within his supporters. There are still attempts to argue that Ivanka and Jarrod will have a moderating effect on Trump despite the absence of evidence verifying that assumption. Matt's is supposed to be the adult in the room, but then we see Mattie supporting the idea that an aircraft carrier group is steaming towards North Korea. The group was headed in the opposite direction. There is no normal when it comes to Trump.

We have 18 months to see if the Sanders-Perez outreach is helpful. So far, Sanders says that he is not a Democrat and offers lukewarm support for Ossoff. Ellison blames Obama for Democratic Party loses. Sanders and Ellison are free to criticize Democrats, but offer a different opinion and you get shut down. There is zero evidence that Democrats can win back Trump voters. The outreach is ongoing. I await the results.

Ellison's statement

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329673-ellison-obama-deserves-blame...

The pushback

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/330039-ellison-comments...

538com did an income neutral

NCD — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 04:45:22 +0000

In reply to Thanks NCD

538com did an income neutral survey after the election and found Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump.

As the Insider View link I have above relates, education is a huge problem with these people.

A key aspect of low education is that these sort of people have historically been easy bait for racist demagoguery.

Thanks NCD

rmrd0000 — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:55:19 +0000

In reply to RM you may find a more

Thanks NCD

I tried to provide links to support my position. I have seen no plan that would get Trump supporters to switch to the Democrats. Very few Trump supporters regret their vote. Trump voter income was in the $75K range. Race trumped economics for many Trump voters. Ignoring facts mean that solutions will fail. Trump has a hardcore 40%. Breaking that bond will be difficult.

ABC/WaPo polling from Sunday

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/trump-voters-have-no-regret...

RM you may find a more

NCD — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:24:07 +0000

In reply to Response to AA from above

RM you may find a more satisfying level of political analysis on many current topics at Booman Tribune'

The main poster is Martin Longman, a writer at Washington Monthly and he does quite extensive 'real world' analysis, among the best.

He predicted a danger of Republican 'southernization of northern states' in 2013 if racial rhetoric was dialed up by the GOP prez candidate in the next election. The commenters there run the usual spread, although there is less monopolization and endless back and forth arguments in commentary.

Krugman on Trump/GOP white identity politics in Why Don't All Jobs Matter:

Finally, it’s hard to escape the sense that manufacturing and especially mining get special consideration because, as Slate’s Jamelle Bouie points out, their workers are a lot more likely to be male and significantly whiter than the work force as a whole.

Anyway, whatever the reasons that political narratives tend to privilege some jobs and some industries over others, it’s a tendency we should fight. Laid-off retail workers and local reporters are just as much victims of economic change as laid-off coal miners.

As to AA's Lilla piece, he is a university intellectual, long a denizen of or the hallowed well funded corridors of academia. I note that in the linked piece Lilla doesn't even mention 'Republican', 'GOP', 'hate' or 'racism', you cannot write about where politics has sunk in this country without those topics. He seems to believe 'identity politics' occurs only on the left.