dagblog - Comments for "Marine Le Pen May Get a Lift From an Unlikely Source: The Far Left"

meanwhile, the top French

artappraiser — Thu, 04 May 2017 23:40:41 +0000

In reply to Marine Le Pen’s Verbal

meanwhile, the top French court sez you can't be neutral about your sex :

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/world/europe/neutral-sex-gender-france.html

Marine Le Pen’s Verbal

artappraiser — Thu, 04 May 2017 23:34:24 +0000

In reply to Marine Le Pen May Get a Lift From an Unlikely Source: The Far Left

Marine Le Pen’s Verbal ‘Violence’ in French Debate Shocks Observers

By Adam Nossiter @ NYTimes.com, May 4

PARIS — A milestone in French politics was reached in the country’s verbally violent presidential debate Wednesday night, but not the expected one.

The shock in the post-debate commentaries, in print and across the airwaves, was revealing: France had never witnessed such a brutal political confrontation in real time.

The consensus was that, far from being the knockout blow Marine Le Pen needed and many anticipated, the result was the opposite. The candidate of the far-right National Front had not improved her already difficult position against the centrist former economy minister Emmanuel Macron.

With her sneering mockery of Mr. Macron, her tone, and her use of epithets, she had revealed something essential about herself despite years of effort to soften her party’s image, in the view of commentators [....]

So will the French talking heads be revealed to be as clueless as their American counterparts about who is losing and who is winning and what some voters like to hear and what they consider to b meant literally and what they don't? Etc....

P.S. I am reminded of this

artappraiser — Mon, 01 May 2017 18:23:07 +0000

In reply to This would be the eternal

P.S. I am reminded of this story: Ferguson, You Let Us Down, which rmrd posted with that title here.

Where tribalism resulting from geographical segregation leads to a false and self-perpetuating sense of hopelessness and despair. Where complicated strategizing is seen as too much, where if, after protesting/complaining, no savior appears to lead you, you just give in to status quo. If there's a tribe around you for a safety net of sorts, even if it doesn't provide too well, no need to fight the big bad world....

Edit to add: apropos that the author of The Root piece starts with the famous anguished cry of many a climber mom to her kids: this is why we can't have nice things.

This would be the eternal

artappraiser — Mon, 01 May 2017 15:48:06 +0000

In reply to Could it be possible Inès

This would be the eternal problem of parents wanting a "better life" for their children, otherwise known as being spoiled into thinking life would go easy for them without any effort on their part. No casting of blame on either generation on my part here, it is just the way things often seem to go, just pointing it out.... even though rules of evolution suggest each new generation should keep fighting to adjust to any new environment.....

Could it be possible Inès

NCD — Mon, 01 May 2017 04:12:42 +0000

In reply to More "sounds familiar":

Could it be possible Inès Seddiki's parents worked as hard or harder, faced even worse discrimination, appreciated life and opportunities not available in Tunisia, Morocco or Algeria and complained much less?

More "sounds familiar":

artappraiser — Mon, 01 May 2017 00:14:45 +0000

In reply to Marine Le Pen May Get a Lift From an Unlikely Source: The Far Left

More "sounds familiar":

In France’s Poor Suburbs, Angry Voters May Skip Big Election

By Alissa J. Rubin & Lilia Blaise @ NYTimes.com, APRIL 30

STAINS, France — For voters in the poorer, largely immigrant suburbs of Paris, the motivation to turn out for France’s presidential runoff seems clear: to defeat Marine Le Pen, the far-right leader of the National Front, who has pitched her campaign against immigrants and Muslims.

The other candidate, the centrist Emmanuel Macron, would seem to be an easy alternative. But the reality of this election cycle in towns like Stains, where public frustration is high over the failure of politicians to deliver on past promises, is that many voters may simply choose to stay home on May 7 for the critical, final vote.

“Don’t count on the working-class neighborhoods this year to save France,” said Inès Seddiki, a 26-year-old French-Muslim in Stains, whose parents came from Morocco.

Although Ms. Seddiki said she would vote reluctantly for Mr. Macron, she feared she was an exception: “White people who say ‘You have to vote against Marine Le Pen because you will lose more than we will’ don’t realize that for us, we already live in a racist country.

In the first round of the presidential election on April 23, voters in many poorer Parisian suburbs did turn out, but for the fiery candidate on the extreme left, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, who channeled the anger of communities neglected by the political system. And many also chose not to vote. That second option — not voting — is now a real possibility in the final round for those who previously voted for Mr. Mélenchon, even though they arguably have the most at stake [.....]

In France’s poor suburbs, many French are of Arab extraction with parents or grandparents who came from Algeria, Morocco or Tunisia. Many are also from sub-Saharan Africa; the former French colonies of Ivory Coast, Mali, Senegal and Togo; and what was once French Indochina, today’s Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. For them, neither the right nor the left has delivered when it comes to making jobs more available and reducing discrimination.

Recent terrorist attacks have worsened the stigma attached to immigrants [.....]

I meant closer on the big

Michael Wolraich — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:11:56 +0000

In reply to His weird and worrying

I meant closer on the big-small axis. Obviously, they're not closer on the left-right axis. My point was not that he has more affinity with Le Pen than with Macron in a comprehensive sense but that he's closer to her than the old left-right frame suggests.

His weird and worrying

Obey — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:20:00 +0000

In reply to Sure. All I'm saying is that

His weird and worrying affinity for Putin notwithstanding, I think it's quite unfair to say that Melenchon is closer to Le Pen than to Macron. That is like saying Corbyn is closer to UKIP than to Blairism. Melenchon made a point of not putting Le Pen on the list of voting options. The options he left his supporters were abstention and voting Macron.

Sure. All I'm saying is that

Michael Wolraich — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:14:57 +0000

In reply to It's just that in our system,

Sure. All I'm saying is that depending on which axis you use to frame contemporary politics, Mélenchon may be closer to Le Pen than he is to Macron. So it's not so surprising that he would refuse to endorse Macron.

It's just that in our system,

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 11:51:40 +0000

In reply to Is this so startling? If you

It's just that in our system, when 12 candidates share a stage, they're all largely mimicking & lip syncing to a particular conservative dogma that precludes much differentiation. In France's case, the 4-5 main candidates differed significantly from each other with some overlaps that would never occur in our finely distilled version of democracy.