dagblog - Comments for "The Moral Necessity of the Civil War"

I have to quarrel with your

Aaron Carine — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 12:47:11 +0000

In reply to The Moral Necessity of the Civil War

I have to quarrel with your seventh paragraph. I don't think America considers it rude to talk about slavery. I hear about it all the time, and I hear much bashing of the Confederacy. Even a lot of Southerners are now ashamed of the Confederacy, witness the removal of the statues.

I think the Civil War was probably right, but I shudder at the staggering death toll. There were two other things that confused the moral issues: the Union's dreadful treatment of POWs, and the deaths of tens of thousands of freed slaves in the "contraband "camps. The latter is dealt with memorably by Jim Downs in his book Sick From Freedom, although(shameless self-promotion) I challenge some of his conclusions in my review on Amazon.

In fairness to Trump, Howard Zinn also had a fantasy that slavery could have been abolished non-violently. If he meant in the same time frame(in 1863-65), he was pretty out of it. If he meant he would have been willing to wait another sixty years or so for slavery to be abolished, I'd say he was rather callous.

I'm going to risk making people angry by saying that the bashing of the Confederates may be somewhat excessive. I think defending your native soil merits some sympathy even when it also means defending slavery. I pity the Southerners for their suffering, although that has nothing to do with defending the Confederacy.

Yeah, that ´s the topic.

Flavius — Fri, 05 May 2017 14:51:05 +0000

In reply to Let's talk about slavery.

Yeah, that ´s the topic.

Let's talk about slavery.

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 05 May 2017 10:29:26 +0000

In reply to The Moral Necessity of the Civil War

Let's talk about slavery.

If a person opposes you in a

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 05 May 2017 10:25:00 +0000

In reply to I disagree to this extent.

If a person opposes you in a completely useless and feeble and non-threatening way, you can treat him or her civilly; otherwise it's war.

I disagree to this extent.

Flavius — Fri, 05 May 2017 10:00:23 +0000

In reply to This is also why I won't

I disagree to this extent.

If the person who disapproves of same sex marriage does so (oh, lord , more bullet points!)

o in compliance with a religious belief,

o only expresses that disapproval civilly and

o. neither attempts personally to impose that belief on others nor

o supports those who do

then I think it´s correct to treat him civilly and specifically not to accuse her of being a homophobe provided you actively make clear your own beliefs. Even- and in fact particularly- when acting as I describe is itself considered uncivil.

Understand that sounds like a cop out. And more to the point a ¨counsel of perfection¨ The kind of thing that

you say you do but , ,well, maybe not always. .

That's the truth. They act as

Doctor Cleveland — Fri, 05 May 2017 02:42:06 +0000

In reply to This is also why I won't

That's the truth. They act as if death were not real.

Mortality: the ultimate pre-existing condition.

This is also why I won't

Michael Maiello — Fri, 05 May 2017 02:04:50 +0000

In reply to The Moral Necessity of the Civil War

This is also why I won't accept it when some conservative, especially one of the NYT's op-ed writers who tries so hard to sound "reasonable and civil," will make some nonsense argument about how it's not fair for liberals to tar anti-same sex marriage conservatives as homophobes and bigots. The fact is, they just want to hold their point of view while also being immune to criticism. They want to believe something ethically awful without ever having anybody say so.

You mention Jeff Sessions and we just found out two days ago that a woman was convicted of some sort of disorderly conduct and illegal protesting for laughing during his Senate confirmation hearings, at the laughable notion that he has been good and fair to all people of all kinds throughout his life. She went to a public event and laughed at her government and now faces up to a year in prison over it. But anyone can plainly see that even if she is fined a penny and sent on her way that the penny she pays for her laughter is a penny too much because the real travesty here is that the result for Jeff Sessions is that he is our attorney general, racist deeds and all.

I think part of what you're getting at here is that while we can agree to disagree on some things, that there are some points of view out there so harmful to humanity (slavery, racism, homophobia, and the belief that Shakespeare didn't write his plays) cannot be met with, "you let your freak flag fly." These are not victimless ideas and so they can't be treated that way.

Why did the Civil War happen? For so many people, the question is, "why did it not happen sooner?" Same thing with same sex marriage, by the way. Way too many "nice," people on the right and concern trolls from the center left said, "See? Change doesn't happen overnight. Take the long view!" Which is all well and good in hindsight, as long as you don't think of all the people who didn't get to enjoy that right, and wanted to, for so many years, and how many of them are dead now and they benefited nothing from a societal evolution that came even a day too late.

People preach patience and tolerance and civility and restraint on these issues as if death isn't real. That's the problem.

Thanks. I have 4 words to

Flavius — Fri, 05 May 2017 01:47:14 +0000

In reply to The Moral Necessity of the Civil War

Thanks. I have 4 words to add:Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney.

Moat... Oh yes...

oldenGoldenDecoy — Thu, 04 May 2017 21:18:57 +0000

In reply to It sounds like Trump has been

Moat... Oh yes...

The war started in Kansas and Missouri.

One needs only to tour the History Museum in the small town of Humboldt in Southeast Kansas and/or visit Camp Hunter (the Unions Camp) there to fully understand that the true beginning of the war began in Kansas and Missouri. The main docent of the museum, now retired at 85 years old Eileen Wulf-Robertson is a life long family friend of ours. A retired teacher (she began teaching in South Central Los Angeles (Watts) at Horace Mann middle school before moving to the town of her birth). She IS a true historian of facts. Take a good and very informative online tour of Humboldt's Civil War History. Camp Hunter that is mentioned is kept as an official site as a City Park through the partial support of Eileen Wulf-Robertson's family that own and operate the Monarch Cement Company (history). The largest cement manufactures in the Heartland.

http://www.humboldtkansas.org/civil_war_history.html

And to Dr Cleveland... OUTSTANDING!

And although...

I REFUSE to remain silent...

Thank you...

~OGD~

It sounds like Trump has been

moat — Thu, 04 May 2017 18:45:16 +0000

In reply to The Moral Necessity of the Civil War

It sounds like Trump has been hanging out with some of the Lost Cause crowd.

Beyond the problem they have of directly contradicting the leaders of the Secession regarding slavery, they ignore the fact that the South brought matters to a head by insisting that they be allowed to expand slavery into newly created states and territories. If they had backed down from that demand, the Unionists would have not interfered with slavery in the established states. The war started in Kansas and Missouri.