dagblog - Comments for "Why My Father Votes Le Pen"

Thanks, ocean-kat. Racism and

rmrd0000 — Wed, 10 May 2017 18:54:56 +0000

In reply to I hadn't intended to post on

Thanks, ocean-kat. Racism and bigotry have to be confronted. Homophobia in the black community had to be confronted. Ignoring homophobia led to black community voting against Gay marriage in several states. Homophobia gave GW 20% of the black vote in Ohio. Open discussions about homophobia changed opinions. Al Sharptton, Jesse Jackson, Cornel West and a host of others spoke out against homophobia in the black community. President Obama changed his position on Gay marriage. The NAACP followed. There is still homophobia in the black community, but there is push back. Take the example of well-respected gospel artist Kim Burrell. Burrell called homosexuality a "perverted spirit" she got backlash from within the black community.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jan/04/kim-burrell-sermon-ellen-d...

Her radio show was terminated. Burrell and others are free to express their religious beliefs, but they are not free from criticism. Challenging bigotry is important.

Instead of pretending that racism and white nationalism are not important parts of the appeal of Trump and Le Pen. People need to be confronting the racism and bigotry. It angers me that so -called allies are willing to turn away from this much needed task. Blacks, Latinos, immigrants, etc. are not the problem. Health care and jobs are being stolen by the elites. Targeting minorities and Gays is misguided and evil.

Democrats/liberals/French

HSG — Wed, 10 May 2017 16:33:28 +0000

In reply to I hadn't intended to post on

Democrats/liberals/French Socialists should focus attention on the economic needs and legitimate desires of the poor, struggling, workers, and the middle-class for the following two reasons: 1) They are human beings who, for that reason alone, deserve to enjoy a decent life. 2) By responding to the economic concerns of the 99%, Democrats/liberals/socialists will be much better positioned to implement other essential policies like social justice, environmentalism, etc.

I hadn't intended to post on

ocean-kat — Wed, 10 May 2017 05:23:07 +0000

In reply to Why My Father Votes Le Pen

I hadn't intended to post on this thread but it kept nagging at me. This is just what many liberals want to hear, no matter how racist, antisemetic, islamophobic, and homophobic a person is the real reason people vote for Le Pen, and by implication, Trump is economics.

The author admits the vote is " tinged with racism and homophobia." Tinged? Good old dad didn't just call gays sick, or mentally ill, or immoral. The father was so antigay that " He liked to say that gay people deserved the death penalty." He was so antisemetic he looked forward to the time when we would “throw out the Arabs and the Jews.” Jews that have been French citizens for generations.

Here is a man who is such a tyrannical patriarch that he went " into the polling station with my older brothers to make sure they really were voting for the National Front." How did he accomplish that with "children" that were at least 18 years old? It wouldn't have worked with me. Were they so beaten down and cowed by years of abuse they would submit to anything? Was there some sort of economic blackmail? Were the young adults, and the " mayor and his staff members who didn’t say anything when they saw my father doing this" afraid of some brutal retribution? The article just claims " No one wanted to pick a fight with my father." WTF? All I know is my dad couldn't have looked over my shoulder while I voted. I would not have allowed it at 18 and neither of my older sisters would.

So really, the author is seriously telling us that dad voted for the National Front because France wasn't economically liberal enough? That if the liberals had paid more attention to his economic troubles this virulently racist, antisemitic, antimuslim, antigay man would have voted for them? This is the man liberals should pay attention to to win elections? I don't believe it. The whole article seems like some sort of skewed bullshit narrative designed to appeal to a certain sort of liberal. I think it's trash not really worth serious discussion.

Recent French Socialist

HSG — Wed, 10 May 2017 01:51:55 +0000

In reply to Again, you're missing the

Recent French Socialist leaders - Strauss-Kahn, Hollande, Macron - have not been socialist. They have been neo-liberal. Nationalism is rising in France because 1) income and wealth are increasingly skewed to the wealthy and poverty rates are rising although not nearly to the degree that they are in the United States and 2) terrorism is a real threat.

Nazi Germany - the Nazis took over during the Great Depression when both the urban working-class and rural farm workers were seeing their always fragile economic security disappear altogether. Germany's unemployment rate may have touched 30% in 1932-33. A close economic analysis of 19th and early 20th century Germany concludes that economic inequality was significantly higher during the Weimar years than either before or since. See http://www1.unisg.ch/www/edis.nsf/SysLkpByIdentifier/3961/$FILE/dis3961.pdf chart at 31.

Fascist Italy - Mussolini's took over at a time when much of country's economy was more medieval than modern. Unemployment had been rising steadily for years as had been the cost of living.

Franco's Spain - I have no familiarity with Spain before and during the Spanish Civil War.

The US during the McCarthy hearings was not a country that embraced authoritarianism or fascism. McCarthy was a demagogue but our democracy was more than powerful enough to withstand him and he was exposed relatively quickly. He then shrunk from the political scene. Moreover, America from the 50s to the mid-60s became ever more egalitarian and enjoyed its lowest crime rates of the 20th century.

In a post at my website earlier this year, that I may not have cross-posted at Dagblog, I document the correlation between increased wealth and income inequality and economic insecurity during the second half of the 19th century in France and the rise of anti-semitism that culminated in the Dreyfus Affair there.

In a post at my website that was cross-posted here, I noted that in America the number of lynchings and other brutal acts against minorities, including immigrants and people of color were especially high in the 1890s. A spikes was again seen in the early 1930s. These were eras that were characterized by large and growing economic inequality and increasing economic insecurity.

I hear Andrew Jackson was

Obey — Tue, 09 May 2017 22:11:11 +0000

In reply to Again, you're missing the

I hear Andrew Jackson was really angry that he saw what was happening with regard to 20th century European totalitarian regimes. He said, "There's no reason for this." People don't realize, you know, the rise of authoritarianism, you think about it, why? Nobody ever asked that question.

Actually I rrad the opposite

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 09 May 2017 21:59:26 +0000

In reply to Again, you're missing the

Actually I rrad the opposite - the stronger and more redistributive the government/society, the stronger the conservative populist movement. Resentment I guess just grows with success, and at minimum there will be a 70-30 split, tho in the US it's always closer to 50-50.

Reheated Firesign Theater?

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 09 May 2017 21:55:26 +0000

In reply to and hopefully marks a passing

Reheated Firesign Theater? There's something real that needs to be addressed, but the Dada Poetry Night bit isn't doing it. Watched "On the Road" last night - earnest but a ness. Kinda my feeling here.

You attack me from pointing

rmrd0000 — Tue, 09 May 2017 20:30:08 +0000

In reply to You really don't get the

You attack me for pointing out a problem. If white nationalism is a core issue, and the response of the Democratic Party is to attract white nationalists, what does that mean for minority groups. Democrats fought for healthcare, saved the auto industry, and made efforts to focus on science and education. Democratic policies looked to the future. Trump is attempting to destroy healthcare and these other initiatives. If white nationalism is at the core, what can the Democratic Party offer?

The "In the News" section has two articles of interest. One deals with regret over voting for Trump. The story involves an immigrant who build a restaurant business, was granted a stay under Obama, but deported under Trump. The man's wife and friends did not believe that Trump would deport "good" people. The second article notes that cultural anxiety played a major role in voting for Trump.

You hate when I bring the issue of race into the discussion about how Democrats can attract Trump voters, yet race is at the center of the discussion. White nationalism has a meaning and that meaning centers around race and ethnicity.

Edit to add

A take from the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/world/americas/white-nationalism-expl...

and hopefully marks a passing

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 09 May 2017 20:22:48 +0000

In reply to Paris has had a couple of

and hopefully marks a passing of this "populism porn" that's been sweeping around

Nothing to see here, folks, just a little populist fuss, not unexpected under the circumstances. It will all blow over in a year or two. Carry on with what you were doing.

Again, you're missing the

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 09 May 2017 20:19:24 +0000

In reply to LePen's strong showing

Again, you're missing the point. France is facing a rise of right-wing nationalism and a withering of its labor party. The Socialists got pummeled. Is it worse in the US? Who knows? It's apples and oranges, the systems are way too different to compare. But the point is that nationalism is rising in France, just as it's rising up here, which means that French policies are not an antidote to nationalism.

"evidence suggests that as societies move towards a more equitable distribution of wealth, they become less angry, less prone to violent upheavals, and less inclined to embrace authoritarian demagogues"

What evidence? Are you referring to Germany before the Nazis? Or Italy before Mussolini? Spain before Franco? The US during the McCarthy hearings? I see zero correlation. Less than zero in fact. If anything, falling income inequality correlates with more anger, violence, and authoritarianism.