dagblog - Comments for "How Do We Defeat the Spectacle?"

Thinking positively on how to

tedplug — Wed, 09 Aug 2023 05:36:00 +0000

In reply to This seems relevant to the

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artappraiser... Yes...

oldenGoldenDecoy — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 03:38:30 +0000

In reply to thanks for this, forgot all

artappraiser... Yes...

Tom is a very astute individual. He was living out here in Southern California. But here's his latest post from yesterday. I found his description of the local environment there to be very interesting.

"I have moved east to DC area. Feels like Watergate in the air, and I was living in DC then. Interesting times."

He's also a very intuitive person.

~OGD~

thanks for this, forgot all

artappraiser — Wed, 31 May 2017 13:27:35 +0000

In reply to tmccarthy ... Just for you...

thanks for this, forgot all about Lakoff.

also fun to find out that "Tom Wright" is still around TPM, now fighting the good fight as a moderator at The Hive, remember lots of good discussions with him @ the Cafe in its pre-Obamamania incarnation.

tmccarthy ... Just for you...

oldenGoldenDecoy — Wed, 31 May 2017 07:16:27 +0000

In reply to That isn't the Spectacle

tmccarthy ... Just for you...

Originally posted as:

The Calm Practical Approach To The Issues and Debates
In The Coming Months and Years @ TPM Hive Dec 4, 2016

Very good points here...

Required Reading George Lakoff on the election By Tom Wright @TPM HIve

It is utterly clear that reason is a tool, not a foundation of human consciousness. We are animals that respond to our various behavioral modules and their priorities. Rationales, such as legal reasoning, are good as frames to fit actions within, but we do not act rationally. We act emotionally...

Thank you @tomwright @TPM HIve

To condense George Lakoff's points... (my bold)

From: Understanding Trump’s Use of Language @ GeorgeLakoff.com - Aug 19, 2016

"Remember not to repeat false conservative claims and then rebut them with the facts. Instead, go positive. Give a positive truthful framing to undermine claims to the contrary. Use the facts to support positively-framed truth. Use repetition."

/snip/

"...start with values, not policies and facts and numbers."

/snip/

"...keep out of nasty exchanges and attacks. Keep out of shouting matches. One can speak powerfully without shouting. Obama sets the pace: Civility, values, positivity, good humor, and real empathy are powerful. Calmness and empathy in the face of fury are powerful."

/snip/

"Be prepared. You have to understand Trump to stand calmly up to him and those running with him all over the country,,,."

And . . .

Why do voters vote their values? @ GeorgeLakoff.com - Nov 22, 2016

"Everyone likes to think of himself or herself as a good person. That means that your moral system is a major part of your identity — who you most deeply are. Voting against your moral identity would be a rejection of self. That is why poor conservatives vote against their material interests. They are voting for their moral world views to dominate, and for public respect for their values."

To repeat...

"...start with values, not policies nor facts nor numbers."

(Bookmark this post for a reminder to stay calm when your blood pressure begins to rise. )

=====================

~OGD~

Thanks for the kind words, TM

artappraiser — Sun, 28 May 2017 14:05:29 +0000

In reply to I would hope I wasn't talking

Thanks for the kind words, TM. Coming back has become quickly addictive because everyone here is great with the brain stretch thing, I've actually got to get some discipline like you, cut down a bit and apply the brain back to making some money....

That isn't the Spectacle

tmccarthy0 — Sun, 28 May 2017 05:56:47 +0000

In reply to Are there examples where he

That isn't the Spectacle though rm, we aren't just talking about politics here and specific issues, what we are talking about is the phenomena that evolved with the digital age, the one that celebrates outrageousness over substance. Trump himself and everyone he surrounds himself with they have no policies beyond enriching themselves and their families in perpetuity. Have you read Debord?

50

With the achievement of economic abundance, the concentrated result of social labor becomes visible, subjecting all reality to the appearances that are now that labor’s primary product. Capital is no longer the invisible center governing the production process; as it accumulates, it spreads to the ends of the earth in the form of tangible objects. The entire expanse of society is its portrait.

That above is what we are talking about and while the 1% has freedom, they travel, they make hundreds of millions or billions a year, money most people can never imagine, but if one participates in the Spectacle, i.e. calling reporters snowflakes and threatening them, calling them weak when one is assaulted, etc, it just all part of the Spectacle and often times the Spectacle pays off in real terms, money. That is exactly how Trump got here, no one who voted for him actually has policies they want to be enacted or even people they want to oppress, they want access to that money and they will try as hard as they can to get their share.

52

Once society discovers that it depends on the economy, the economy in fact depends on the society. When the subterranean power of the economy grew to the point of visible domination, it lost its power. The economic Id must be replaced by the I. This subject can only arise out of society, that is, out of the struggle within society. Its existence depends on the outcome of the class struggle that is both product and producer of the economic foundation of history.

"The economic Id must be replaced by the I" let that sink in and then tell me that this hasn't happened. My mom pins it on Reagan, he ushered in the I in society and we just moved quickly from that point. Fox, Rush, etc, they rely on the I, you are screwing me, and seemingly all the whacko's like Alex Jones et al, profit from being nothing more than a Spectacle, they have no substance, they found their way to make money. Period. They do not care if they have to be racist or sexist to get their part or at least what they see as their part.

184

The end of the history of culture manifests itself in two opposing forms: the project of culture’s self-transcendence within total history, and its preservation as a dead object for spectacular contemplation. The first tendency has linked its fate to social critique, the second to the defense of class power.

Resist, but know what you are resisting.

(Bockquotes are both from Debord's, Society of the Spectacle, Chapter 2., 1967)

I would hope I wasn't talking

tmccarthy0 — Sun, 28 May 2017 05:29:08 +0000

In reply to Thanks for this post & thread

I would hope I wasn't talking to walls, but even if I am alone in this, and I'm okay with it, I feel like at least I made a new connection in my brain and I'm stretching it again, that feels good. Good to see you back at Dag. I don't stop by every day, but I hadn't seen you here in a long time and it is really good to have you back.

Are there examples where he

rmrd0000 — Sat, 27 May 2017 15:09:55 +0000

In reply to How Do We Defeat the Spectacle?

Are there examples where he Spectacle went away quietly? Women's suffrage, outlawing lynching, fighting Jim Crow, Vietnam, etc. all required direct confrontation. Where is the evidence that voters cheering a candidate assaulting a reporter actually care if people they view as enemies want to have a rational conversation. Shouldn't the pressure be on the Conservative leadership to stop the nonsense?

Thanks AA. I do find it's a

Obey — Sat, 27 May 2017 12:12:03 +0000

In reply to Wow, I just got around to

Thanks AA. I do find it's a helpful reminder to myself from time to time. ;0)

Thanks for this post & thread

artappraiser — Sat, 27 May 2017 12:03:21 +0000

In reply to How Do We Defeat the Spectacle?

Thanks for this post & thread, TMac. Hope you're not talking to walls and some see the error of "fighting back with the same".