dagblog - Comments for "Dem's Free College, Loser as a Rural Issue"

Ah, but you might remember

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 05 Jun 2017 23:24:13 +0000

In reply to Peracles... I have no idea of

Ah, but you *might* remember some newscast the morning of June 14, 1953... the paradox of memory and old age. There was something that with older folks, it's sometimes more successful to throw a nostalgia party based on decades-old setting than to set it up in a current milieu where they largely forget - the older stuff imprints harder for some reason.

Peracles... I have no idea of

oldenGoldenDecoy — Mon, 05 Jun 2017 22:56:26 +0000

In reply to I recall after re-reading. My

Peracles... I have no idea of the finger strokes...

What amazes me is that I was even able to recall the post and actually find it here in the archives.

At my advanced stage of age related memory degradation I can't recall what I ate this morning.

~OGD~

Also, I wanna say I think

artappraiser — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 14:09:33 +0000

In reply to College? Army's the way for

Also, I think this is a great quote from your Hullabaloo link, it speaks volumes about the unnecessary polarization in our country:

"Well, I don't know if I want two guys getting married ... but I don't want to be a jerk about it." These are those voters. Unlike doctrinaire conservatives, they take an “on the one hand, on the other hand” view of issues. Use of the word "but" is not just a fluke, but common.

This is the Midwest flyover people speaking that I know, where I come from (Milwaukee, WI and regions surrounding.)

But when one comes to online forums populated with urban coastals, one is told that they are all hate spewing racist monsters.

The "doctrinaire" pundits are on TV, radio and Breitbart are not the same as the red people out there, it is a game that they might enjoy watching, but not real life. It's not how people act one-on-one in real life, it's all kabuki.

Everyone gets involved in the debate game and wants to try their hand at their own political spin, and that is the problem of doing debate online and in general about the polarization of our political discourse and also the fascination with horse race in politics. My aversion to debate is not just personal, I think the popularity of adversial spin is bad for the country. Study of "horse race", on the other hand, is something I personally enjoy But I think that obsessive coverage of it encourages the amateur adverserial spin thing, and that's bad. (This is why I was very disheartened by TPM changing to all horse race all the time from more long-form, thoughtful analysis and discussion.) I think shortened campaigns would help the country a lot, a lot.

I recall after re-reading. My

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 14:02:47 +0000

In reply to Peracles... Recall my old TPM

I recall after re-reading. My God, how many finger strokes ago...

train kids in Outward Bound

artappraiser — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 13:45:28 +0000

In reply to 1) firemen don't tase or

Re: train kids in Outward Bound

I've always noted with interest that the NYTimes editorial board has strongly promoted the "Fresh Air Fund" as a charity for decades, their promotion of it this year is here. Old organization, sends poor urban kids out to stay with volunteer rural families for "summer vacation" From reading them on it for years when I used to subscribe to the print edition, they really believe it helps society at large, not just poor kids.

Peracles... Recall my old TPM

oldenGoldenDecoy — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 13:32:57 +0000

In reply to College? Army's the way for

Peracles... Recall my old TPM Cafe post?

You had left a comment on it back in March 2013 here in the Dag archives...

Joining the Military is a Career Option for Any Child?
By oldenGoldenDecoy on Sat, 07/08/2006 - 5:35pm |

Joining the military is a career option for any child. Those are not my words. They are the words of Virginia Schumacher, a retired teacher and manager at the History Center in Ithaca, N.Y., who wrote one of the classroom guides for the May issue of Cobblestone magazine, a children's magazine for schools....

~OGD~

1) firemen don't tase or

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 13:29:26 +0000

In reply to Also comes to mind with the

1) firemen don't tase or abuse/rape teenagers or toss people in back of a van unsecured for a "joy ride". Abuse of authority has predictable results.

2) guy I was talking to on the train got sent to New Zealand to train kids in Outward Bound-like activities for his 1-2 year service obligation. Pretty cool.

3) military service in old Yugoslavia was a glue that biund kids from 8 different regions. Except the Kosovars - even there they were iutsiders.

4) Percent of Americans seeing combat since 1974 is relatively much smaller compared to before, so the Clinton Draft Dodger thing is no longer such a known affront - there's no draft. So they find other ways to build resentment.

But yeah, liberals think college is the sine quo non. (sp?). Middle earthers have the early dead-end job or military as competing destinies/narratives after high school. How did we miss the army bit?

Also comes to mind with the

artappraiser — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 13:12:31 +0000

In reply to Great article with incredibly

Also comes to mind with the news in London, that we've increasingly got lone wolf terrorism as a problem for the forseeable future, not to mention the epidemic of people with guns (lets add knives or bombs here to avoid getting into the guns issue totally) "going postal." Is there some way to make a sort "peace corps" service out of law enforcement, more like military service, without us becoming East Germany? Whatever most local communities are doing now in training and hiring of police forces including adding minorities, it ain't working with the "black lives matter" groups.And some might disagree but I believe that it doesn't work with a lot of white rural working class as well, they hate and fear "the cops" just as much. Is there some way to make police/law enforcement nationwide looked upon as well as someone in military uniform is looked upon? Doing this right would like kill three or four birds with one stone. The whole country needs to defeat gangs giving young people a sense of community and purpose, needs to lessen the "famous for 15 minutes" factor of lone wolf "terrorism" whether ideological or just "going postal", whole country wants "sense of purpose" work but the law enforcement in this country is still, even after all the "hero" first responder thing of 9/11, looked down upon as authoritarian. Why is it? EMT's and firemen don't have this problem.

Great article with incredibly

artappraiser — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 12:52:26 +0000

In reply to College? Army's the way for

Great article with incredibly striking map illustration! Good lord, looking at that map, one can almost understand Trump's claims and attitudes about the election. It's an overwhelming sea of red framed by a skinny border of blue, where not coincidentally all those illegals manage to slip in. It presents a picture like this: what are the blue people thinking that they can be in charge of this country?

Good point to bring up the military because even before it offered a college education, service in same has traditionally filled the function of giving a young aimless guy same sense of "purpose" (not a job but a sense of purpose and meaning) is in all the millenial cultural chatter. (Ask ISIS, they surely know this!) And yes, this little cultural p.o.v. about the military does often extend to minority cultures! Of late probably even more so than rural whites.

So then we have the rest of the blues being not very gung ho on military service, since Vietnam, and I am one who is with them there. Because to me, when those kids sign up, chances are they might come home in body bags. Not to mention what it does to some of them in giving them "a sense of purpose." But then I'm a child of a man who hated being drafted for WWII. Grateful that some want to volunteer just so others don't have to be drated. It's the whole cannon fodder thing, just doesn't feel right, feel guilty that the uneducated are being used as cannon fodder. So I try to respect others views of military service as being the right thing for some but I just don't want to produce more cannon fodder nor do I want there to be more fathers around who are trained in the Great Santini type authoritarian masculine role.

Inserting a reminder here about how often Trump has harped on taking care of vets. And how Michele Obama, made "military families" a favorite issue. And how Barack was not tarred with the draft dodger, doesn't-know-how-to-salute thing that Bill Clinton was.

Here's the thing that just popped into my head. When blues watch Star Trek, they don't think "cannon fodder", not even me.

When reds see Peace Corps they see lily livered liberal kid trying to insert themselves in cultures where they don't belong where it's none of our business, or when reds (or blue minorities) see Teach for America they see elite white blues coming into their hood to indoctrinate their kids.

How can there be "Star Trek" government service for the 21st century where a majority don't find it disagreeable? Certainly it fits the whole "sense of purpose" thing.

Comes to mind, my own draft-hating military-hating dad served a stint in the Merchant Marine after being drafted at the end of WWII, and before going to college on the G.I.Bill. He hated the Army and did the Merchant Marine to avoid being re-drafted for Korea. He loved being in the Merchant Marine, it filled his desire to get away and "see the world" like sitting doing guard duty in occupied Japan didn't. And he wasn't a rural boy, he was a townie.

College? Army's the way for

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 07:35:20 +0000

In reply to Dem's Free College, Loser as a Rural Issue

College? Army's the way for flyover country. Not "free" - they pay you!!! Lesson - single solutions don't fly.