dagblog - Comments for "Kid Rock as a U.S. Senator?"

I wonder why there is so much

rmrd0000 — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:28:57 +0000

In reply to Driftglass agreed with your

I wonder why there is so much pushback when you call out racists by name. I have white friends who are actually more vocal about white racists who support Trump than I am. I try not to use personal experience to support my position regarding issues of race. I try to find supportive data from the news, sociological analysis, or polling. The data suggests that race was more important than economics in 2016.

Romney and McCain did not run white supremacist campaigns. Trump made sure that racists like Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions were front and center. Trump pretended that he didn't know David Duke. He creates a voter suppression panel that wants all voter data from every state in the country to be stored on a computer guarded by one of Mike Pence's aides. Trump voters, even Obama to Trump voters, are not speaking out about the racism.

Winning back the racists with a purely economic message will be impossible for Democrats. The only way Democrats can win the Obama to Trump voters back is to throw minorities under the bus.

Driftglass agreed with your

NCD — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:06:44 +0000

In reply to The argument I responded to

Driftglass agreed with your theory.

He says the racists backs were to the wall in 2008, overcoming racist core values, and thus voting for Obama. As in 2016 the economy was doing pretty well, and since Trump spoke to their racism, he got their support. 538 analysis in November 16 showed low education, not income, was the primary factor in swing state counties.

DG in August 2008, reprinted, Nov 2016:

Right now there is so much pressure on these voters -- so much torque to their sense of identity being wrenched onto by them by the economic and cultural disasters wrought by the liars and sociopaths they keep electing -- that they are almost in tears, moaning and clawing at their skulls, trying to figure out how to simultaneously:

A) Keep from drowning in a rising tide of ruin and failure of their own making, and

B) Stay faithful to the deep, ugly foundation stones of bigotry they dutifully learned at their father’s and grandfather’s knees and which, up until now, they have been spared the pain of facing by the use of pretty, perfumed code.

They are becoming unhinged trying to reconcile this massive, existential dissonance at the core of their lives....this time there they cannot escape the choice they have to make. And this time we on the Left will remind them -- loudly, rudely, and from every street corner, blog, and microphone -- exactly what those choices are: to adapt and change and live in a Progressive and tolerant nation, or stay just as they are and die in a Conservative and bigoted one.

The argument I responded to

rmrd0000 — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:46:36 +0000

In reply to I find your view to be

The argument I responded to was that people who voted for Obama could not be racists. The data I provided supports the idea that racists did vote for Obama. Trumka spoke the truth. I agree with Trumka, racists are real.

I find your view to be

ocean-kat — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:29:40 +0000

In reply to Your first link, from Time,

I find your view to be lacking in nuance. As if a person is defined by his racism. As if a racist is all he is. My father was racist, though he would tell you he wasn't. He had a black friend, though he'd tell you he just doesn't want his daughter to marry one. He loved his racist jokes. For example he liked to "joke" that he loved boxing because no matter who won you got to see a black guy get beat up.

But he was a steel worker. A union man. A democrat. I could see him voting for Obama. Because being a union man, a democrat, was more important than his racism. Richard Trumka spent a lot of time giving speeches to people like my father. If you don't know about Trumka's campaigning for Obama you should at least check out the link. He was totally upfront about racism among white union members. He probably convinced a lot of them to vote for Obama. It didn't mean they weren't racist. It just meant that they found something more important to them to vote for than their racism.

Agree. Just saw this comment

NCD — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:17:43 +0000

In reply to You have an opinion about

Agree. Just saw this comment at Wapo:

The term 'elite' has become a Republican code word for educated people who don't blame Mexicans, Muslims, black people, gays or women for the nations problems.

You have an opinion about

rmrd0000 — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 22:53:08 +0000

In reply to Your first link, from Time,

You have an opinion about what computes as racism for you. Researchers who delve into the impact of race in the 2012 election, find that it played a major role for Obama to Trump voters. Janelle's Bouie of Slate detailed two studies pointing out that whites with negative views of blacks did manage to vote for Obama. For these voters Obama's economic message was a positive. Neither McCain or Romney ran an overtly white supremacist campaign. Along comes Trump with an uplifting economic message and white supremacy as an added attraction and those white former Obama voters go for Trump.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/06/voter_s...

Polling at the time of Obama's 2008 campaign noted that people who wouldn't want their daughter to marry a black man would still swallow hard and vote for Obama. Racists did find it in themselves to vote for Obama.

http://www.politico.com/story/2008/10/racists-for-obama-014691

Your first link, from Time,

artappraiser — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:55:47 +0000

In reply to We cannot pretend that race

Your first link, from Time, is gleaned from interviews with 16 Obama voters who voted for Trump, none of which show any indications of racism and in addition, one of them appears to be black, Darryl Wimbley, 48, Saginaw, Mich. (While not appearing racist, Mr. Wimbley does have some interesting, different things to say about racism.)

Your second link, from Salon, is a self-admitted "theory" op-ed by Amanda Marcotte twisting the economic and class reasons cited by many for this phenomenon into something about race. I find it to be illogical if not sophist. She's just throwing it out there hoping someone will find some facts to make it stick.

Edit to add: I simply cannot label any white person who voted for a black man to be president of their country to be racist against people with black skin. It just doesn't compute, is not my definition of racism. They may hate ghetto inhabitants or Maxine Waters and the Congressional Black Caucus, immigrants, or Asians or welfare recipients or could be Islamaphobes, but if they voted for Obama, they do not have prejudice against people with black skin. Period, end of story, definition of racism: hating people because of their race alone. Hating a culture or special interest group or class is not the same thing, it is not racism.

We cannot pretend that race

rmrd0000 — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:23:53 +0000

In reply to People who voted for Trump

We cannot pretend that race didn't play a role in Obama voters switching to Trump, when clearly it did. Here is what a group of these voters told Time magazine.

http://time.com/voices-from-democratic-counties-where-trump-won-big/

Race was more important than economics in Obama voters switching to Trump. Hillary's campaign focused on economic issues, not "identity politics". During economic strife, racists may look to Democrats to save them. Once the economy is more stable, racism rears its head again. The racists complain that they are suffering because of minorities and immigrants.

http://www.salon.com/2017/03/30/new-election-theory-did-working-class-wh...

His Dem opponent, by the way,

wabby — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 01:07:18 +0000

In reply to Kid Rock as a U.S. Senator?

His Dem opponent, by the way, is/will be Debbie Stabenow. She is already fundraising off this issue.

I don't want to break my

wabby — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 01:01:37 +0000

In reply to Kid Rock as a U.S. Senator?

I don't want to break my computer by posting the actual photo that was making the rounds a while back, but if you click on the link it will take you to it.

http://www.infowarsteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/9-768x1024.jpg

One of my favorite comments on one of the sites that had this photo was,"The sad thing is, the smartest person in the room is made out of canvas and paint."