dagblog - Comments for "WaPo Worships Principled, Humanitarian McCain That’s Never Existed"

Useful no matter what you

artappraiser — Sat, 26 Aug 2017 04:10:08 +0000

In reply to WaPo Worships Principled, Humanitarian McCain That’s Never Existed

Useful no matter what you think of him:

The Apprentices: John McCain’s foreign policy club

The veteran senator has mentored many senators — from both parties — to carry on his foreign policy worldview.

@ Politico.com, 08/25/2017 05:20 AM EDT

Here's a link to ex-Sputnik

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 20:28:00 +0000

In reply to I too didn't like the Fair

Here's a link to ex-Sputnik writer who ~~quit~~ was fired before he managed to quit - he notes he finally decided their mission wasn't to report news but to sow doubt. I get that feeling about half these magazines cited. Ones that have awfully spun conclusions every time out, whatever the validity you might entice from one of their pieces. Yeah, McCain has done some dumb things - but why focus on them now? Cause it helps Trump and Putin. Too transparent.

Whatever. Right now, Trump &

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:53:15 +0000

In reply to Your retort indicates that my

Whatever. Right now, Trump & a dozen of his GOP colleagues are the biggest enemy. McCain is useful in kneecapping him. I simply don't care about the rest, though maybe if VIPS said he was evil I'd give it more consideration.

I'm not a McCain fan. He's a

ocean-kat — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 03:28:00 +0000

In reply to That's who he was and is.

I'm not a McCain fan. He's a total hawk who was only slightly joking when he sang, "Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran." If he had been president instead of Bush I think it's likely he'd have started the same wars Bush did. Though I do think McCain would have executed them more competently.

But be fair, I think you know it wasn't just one fortuitous death bed vote. I've already mention McCain Feingold. He was also very strong against torture during the Bush years when it was very politically risky. And there were many times he spoke up honorably against racism and hate. For example to the women who called Obama an Arab at a campaign stop. I could go on but I think this video is enough.

McCain was so honorable against Obama in 2008. He wouldn't use race as a weapon, he wouldn't allow anyone including Palin to use it, and he pushed back publicly when people asked him about it. He could have enflamed a race war to win. It might even have worked. He could have at least dog whistled instead he definitively tamped it down. McCain advanced race relations for the good by his behavior in 2008. Imagine for just one second what would have happened if it had been Trump v Obama in 2008.

I too didn't like the Fair

ocean-kat — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 03:22:23 +0000

In reply to P.S. On the WaPo article

I too didn't like the Fair article. What irked me right off the bat is the link to the WP article was hard to find. Every other link was long and clear but the WP link was short, hard to find, and unclear. It's like they didn't want you to read the article they were critiquing. But what actually triggered me to respond was your statement that Trump was just bullshitting on the pussy grab tape. I hate Trump so much I'm triggered any time anyone says anything that isn't in line with my hatred of him. I didn't think it would be fair to you to just address one sentence at the end of your post and ignore the bulk of your comment. So I made a few points on McCain too.

That's who he was and is.

A Guy Called LULU — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:13:09 +0000

In reply to There's a lot to praise

That's who he was and is. That's what he did.

That is a completely fair way to judge Trump or anyone else, even John McCain. That is why I have stressed the long, in depth article in TRS covering his whole life until 2008. Trump supporters who think he has done at least a few good things during his life too. Even if McCain is having a deathbed conversion that has led to one fortuitous vote, his life stands as he led it.

you did this far better than

artappraiser — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:11:28 +0000

In reply to There's a lot to praise

you did this far better than me. I meant to get into this kind of nuance, but I stopped developing that line of thought by saying that the WaPo article did fawn a bit.

I actually am not into defending him that much! I just get annoyed when I see people trying to feed the Manichean Dem. vs. GOP thing by omitting the reality of things like, yes, McCain Feingold. It's the truthiness thing. (Reminds me of the flip side of, where some lefties liked to rationalize Feingold into some kind of dream lefty peacenik candidate for prez, conveniently trying to rationalize how much of a hawk he was on supporting Israel and on Islamic terrorism.)

But now there is something going on with him that I think really is worth defending as he looks death in the face for the final time. I've experienced death of loved ones enough now to know that depth of sincerity when I see it.

As to memorials, if Dem colleagues of longstanding think he is worthy of one, that would be proof enough to me that he deserved it.

P.S. On the WaPo article

artappraiser — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:05:54 +0000

In reply to you did this far better than

P.S. On the WaPo article itself, would like to add that the Fair.org really aggravated me in making the WaPo a straw man by taking it out of the context it was written. It was written in the context of castigating the GOP Congress to start acting like they have a spine and daily attacks by WaPo on the Trump presidency, trying to get them to talk straight and Trump to stop lying every day since he was inaugurated.

The Fair.org piece uses this in order to do a hit piece to remind everyone of the lies of McCain's life, as if everyone else in Congress were better. I am really starting to see how straw man arguments are some of the most detrimental, how they are ruining context and nuanced understanding and contributing to a divided society where you are either on one side or another and there are no people in the inbetween. If they wanted to do a hit piece on McCain, they could have left WaPo out of it, people who dislike him and his convictions are certainly entitled to do that.

There's a lot to praise

ocean-kat — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 01:30:00 +0000

In reply to I've read your link and The

There's a lot to praise McCain for and to criticize. I'll just mention one. You'll see many here and on every liberal site criticizing Citizen's United but rarely if ever do they mention that the law the Supreme Court overturned was the McCain Feingold Campaign Reform act. I also agree that the Fair article didn't address the WP article and was about not liking "the man's convictions and point of view, therefore they do not want to see him praised in any way shape or form."

But I don't think McCain practices politics the way he and the article claims he does, or at least only when it suits him. Where was this McCain during Obama's eight years? He could have led a group of moderates to work with Obama. With McCain and his maverick reputation several senators would have joined him. The right wing spin that Obama was unwilling to compromise is a lie and just used to cover republican intransigence. My complaint about Obama in the 2008 democratic primary was that he was too bipartisan. I said then the republicans would not work with him. As he bent over backwards with compromises I rejected to find some republican to join him I wrote several I Told You So posts. I posted that I was glad the tea party republicans were totally unwilling to compromise because it saved us from Obama handing over everything to the republicans in his misguided obsession with compromise and bipartisanship. Where was McMaverick then putting country before party?

As for Trump, yes he pretends to talk straight and pretends to be on the same level as his base. But when he bragged about pussy grabbing he wasn't just bullshitting. There is more than enough evidence to support the notion that he in fact did exactly what he claimed. Force himself on women, kissed them without consent, and groped them. As there is evidence that his claims made on Stern about walking in on pageant contestants, even teens, when they were naked and half dressed were not bullshitting either. That's who he was and is. That's what he did.

You have bought into his

A Guy Called LULU — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 00:21:19 +0000

In reply to I've read your link and The

You have bought into his story as intended and maybe you are correct to do so. I don't buy it though and will likely object every time I hear the groundwork being laid for the glorious story to go on his statue's base plate. Unless, that is, I lose my challenge above to PP or anyone else who chooses to take it up. Thanks though for an honest response.