dagblog - Comments for "See even conservatives agree with Hal"

HSG, your quote of Douthat

moat — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 23:17:07 +0000

In reply to It is in these two paragraphs

HSG, your quote of Douthat clipped the last part of the paragraph where he included his own view that economic determinism was not adequate for the job of addressing inequality. That cutting off makes sense in terms of you deciding where his agreement with you ended. It does have me thinking that the list of alternatives is longer than what Douthat included. I will mull that for a bit.
It is interesting how Douthat does not call out Sanders as a social engineer in the business of shaping markets. He only refers to the call to redistribute wealth. Now that oversight could be Douthat just being a conservative. Or maybe he is saying that there is a disconnect between the concept of influencing markets and economic determinism. Maybe they are not what they are a priori but mixed up with other objectives and conflicts.

You are trapped. Whites like

rmrd0000 — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 17:24:11 +0000

In reply to Of course we should deal with

You are trapped. Whites like those who voted for Trump do not want race-neutral plans, they want plans that exclude blacks. Call me when you get those white voters to change.

Edit to add:

You admit that Sanders did not appeal to black voters, yet you are incapable of listening to what black voters are saying about our current situation. You repeat the same crap and expect blacks to fall in line. You simply don't listen. Warren and Harris would trounce the elderly Sanders in 2020.

Of course we should deal with

HSG — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 15:22:59 +0000

In reply to Economic downturns occur.

Of course we should deal with race. I have never suggested otherwise. In fact, I have always said we must focus on both economic and racial justice. When economic downturns inevitably occur, if the government commits to making sure the less affluent suffer the least, any rise in racism is very likely to be muted.

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In order to regain power, therefore, Democrats must continually stress the commonality of interests between the white working-class and voters of color. They must also recognize that the latter along with women and those whose sexuality falls outside of the heteronormative have struggles that are distinct from those of poor and working-class whites. But they must do so in a way that does not diminish the outsize role that class and wealth at birth play in determining one’s future. http://halginsberg.com/fusing-group-identity-and-class-based-politics/ (2017)

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Clinton’s backers frequently argue that Bernie’s focus on economic injustice bespoke an indifference to racism and sexism. Bernie’s supporters acknowledge that Bernie didn’t build sufficient trust within African-American communities to persuade black voters to forsake the more familiar Clintons. Nevertheless, progressive Democrats contend that Clinton’s dependence, and the dependence of many other Democrats, on corporate financing to underwrite campaigns means they can never be true allies in the fight for economic and social justice. http://halginsberg.com/bernie-versus-hillary-redux-or-the-war-for-the-de... (2017)

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With President Lyndon Johnson’s commitment to passing the Voting Rights Act and the broad range of social programs known as the Great Society, including Medicare, Medicaid, the Fair Housing Act, and other laws, American liberalism reached its apotheosis. http://halginsberg.com/elizabeth-warrens-history-lesson/ (2015)

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race-neutral redistributive economic policies designed to improve the condition of working-class Americans coupled with civil rights legislation led to better living conditions for non-affluent whites and blacks with a reduction in wealth and income disparities. http://halginsberg.com/bernie-sanders-ran-on-an-anti-racist-platform/ (2016)

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So I have a long and strong record of stressing the importance of both race and economic inequality. When have you ever written about the need to address economic inequality which disproportionately harms African-Americans?

He has to force his economic

rmrd0000 — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 15:20:05 +0000

In reply to Jim Crow was defeated I'd

He has to force his economic view to fit even when there is a large disconnect. This really explains why Sanders had little appeal for blacks. Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris seem more reality based.

Jim Crow was defeated I'd

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 14:53:00 +0000

In reply to That's when Jim Crow was

Jim Crow was defeated I'd guess with the Voting Rights Act in 1965 a bit later than that greatest generation middle class bump over the prior 20 years. And of course the famous Florida voter rolls disenfrancisement of 2000 came at the tail of the Clinton boom years. Really, white well-being and acting shitty to blacks aren't connected by any logical economic factors.

Were you in a coma in the 90

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 14:52:00 +0000

In reply to The white backlash from the

Hal, were you in a coma in the 90's or not born yet?

Economic downturns occur.

rmrd0000 — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 14:00:50 +0000

In reply to The pushback is occurring

Economic downturns occur. Whites respond to downturns by attacking black advances. Name a country where there has not been an economic downturn. Racist whites will use economic stress to do things like lynchings, Jim Crow, police abuse, and voter suppression. Your economics approach is a bandage for the real problem. Without dealing with race, blacks will always be at risk for white backlash.

The pushback is occurring

HSG — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 13:54:18 +0000

In reply to We now face the pushback. You

The pushback is occurring when federal and state government - whether controlled by Democrats or Republicans - has been doing far less to reduce wealth and income inequality.

What have I written that causes you to believe that I "want blacks to be happy with crumbs given out when whites feel they are doing well."

We now face the pushback. You

rmrd0000 — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 13:16:19 +0000

In reply to That's when Jim Crow was

We now face the pushback. You want blacks to be happy with crumbs given out when whites feel they are doing well.

Yes, that is part of who many

HSG — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 13:10:49 +0000

In reply to So they are racist.

Yes, that is part of who many are.