dagblog - Comments for "Trump to unveil NAFTA proposals that throw the deal into peril "

Combine harvester & penguins

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 08:07:16 +0000

In reply to you're all very snarky but

Combine harvester & penguins - that's just simply unfair - anything with those 2 rammed together will evoke a laugh, no matter what other words are inserted. And the Brits don't actually have either. (Small feudal homesteads have always been their bent). Blimey.

you're all very snarky but

artappraiser — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 05:46:48 +0000

In reply to They haven't come close to

might just check how brexit is going
*opens door to reveal combine harvester chewing through pile of screeching penguins*
oh
— joe ❌ (@mutablejoe) October 11, 2017

(I follow Joe for when I need Brit humor, which is often.)

Except that sucking sound

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 04:47:00 +0000

In reply to I should have written 'anyone

Except that sucking sound didn't happen for 7 years? You're talking shit now, as was Perot. Teump's been theeatening NAFTA's destruction for 2 years (like Obamacare) - a really shitty appriach to then supposedly the areas that hurt us. And ni, Obamacare wouldn't even be having problems if Republicans hadn't tried and succeeded to give it probkems for 7 years now. If I shove a stick un your bike spokes, doesn't mean your bike was designed to fail.

I should have written 'anyone

Peter — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 23:56:12 +0000

In reply to " I dont think anyone

I should have written 'anyone who actually matters wants NAFTA to fail". You,I and Hal won't be consulted. NAFTA stirred up the breeze that turned into a sucking sound of jobs leaving the US and the Mextcan government lowering tarrifs and subsidies on corn produced mass dislocation of subsistance farmers but it created good trade opportunities elsewhere in these economies. All that Trump's team is doing now is rebalancing some of those sections of the agreement that were overgenerous and harm US business.

The Mexicans had to improve their produce sanitation standards under NAFTA which they did and they now enjoy huge exports of fruits, vegetables and flowers to the US. The US sells them corn for animal feed while they produce all their own maize for human consumption.

Many people want to end Obamacare before it completely collapses into a black hole that it now appears to have been designed to do. The republicans have sure gone soft, I expected them to kill Obamacare and not replace it but times have changed.

yeah leave me out of it too,

artappraiser — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:25:55 +0000

In reply to " I dont think anyone

yeah leave me out of it too, I didn't say nothing bout NAFTA. (Actually, the article was inspirational in that it got me thinking how we differ, being a big nation of 50 states and all, where people of different geographical areas, can still move to where the work is, as in: like if the UK was still part of the EU....but I couldn't grok the comparison that well)

" I dont think anyone

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:45:00 +0000

In reply to The commentary on Trump's

" I dont think anyone actually wants NAFTA to fail" - huh? why don't you and Hal talk this one out. This was the trade deal spawned by Satan, the mother of all nasty trade deals, the rocks upon which the Clinton ship wrecked. It's like saying no one wants Obamacare to fail at this point. Except almost all elected Republicans & quite a few Independents.

The commentary on Trump's

Peter — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:03:08 +0000

In reply to Wow, that last Independent

The commentary on Trump's trade tean's work on improving NAFTA seems like overdramatic hand-wringing. I dont think anyone actually wants NAFTA to fail but promises were made to voters and this president has the annoying habit of keeping promises.

The Brexit is another example of people using democracy to move national interests to the beginning of discussions not allowing them to be an afterthought. The globalist NWO forces are furious about this direct assault on their collectivist authoritarian fantasy and seem willing to bomb their own cities to somehow punish those who won't submit to their Stalinist collective. The Torries seem useless and without some type of effective populist leadership Commie Corbyn could become PM and the globalists will have won.

Wow, that last Independent

artappraiser — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:31:01 +0000

In reply to They haven't come close to

Wow, that last Independent link is quite something along the lines of breaking down preconceptions about what might happen with more protectionism; I highly recommend it to everyone:

Brexit: More than one million foreign workers preparing to leave UK within five years

Highly skilled workers are the most likely to consider leaving, with 47 per cent thinking about upping sticks by 2022

Make sure to read the whole thing though. It not only makes a good case that the only jobs opening up would be for the highly educated and/or highly skilled, there is some opining in the article along the lines of "but don't worry, we can automate those jobs too"! Which makes the case to me that those people have no other reason for protectionism but nationalism (i.e., Make Britiannia Great Again. What do you do once you have automated a lot more jobs so there's not enough work for even the highly educated and you are a small island nation? Why go to war, of course, expand the Empire once again.)

Oh yes, let's please pull out

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:20:27 +0000

In reply to This brief response will be

Oh yes, let's please pull out the "neoliberals" tag yet again.

You somehow forget the "Brexit means Brexit" proclamation, which immediately after the vote started hedging its bets since the magical 300M pounds per month for the NHS turned out to be a hoax/lie.

So, headlines that might have prevented a recession (proclaiming many people including experts think it will never happen) can be found below..

I know that's weak tea for you, because you think in absolutes, rather than probabilities, another issue to deal with. (a perusal of Nate Silver's work on Beyesian Probability as applies to predictions would be useful).

As for economics, I don't pretend to be an "expert", but have done reasonable study at bachelors and masters level to give me some basic rigor. Perhaps you've studied more, I don't know, but I don't see it, which is more important in the end - proof is in the putting.

And you still prefer to punk out, rather than ever address any basic points, such as "why is a stagnant (low) wage with fuller employment so much better than less employment and foreigners leaving?" or my note re: how Brexit would simply lead to more offshoring You never think to break down tax revenues, actual knock-on productivity and employment effects, etc. etc. (note that Mexicans have direct trade with most of the rest of the world - so easy to get around NAFTA for many industries - the US is one who didn't cultivate many of these bilateral relations. Similarly the UK would be stuck trying to create a huge # of replacement relationships, vs the EU's umbrella one, years of work). I think about this stuff. You quote some article or other.

==========================================================

Jul 14, 2016 - Boris Johnson says Brexit vote does not mean leaving Europe 'in any sense' .... and Commonwealth Affairs, is one of the four most senior positions in the UK ...

Aug 29, 2016 - Britain will never leave the EU because Boris Johnson and other leading Brexiteers did not realise the full complexity of the process, a leading expert has claimed. ... Prof Brooks, who advised the Electoral Commission on the wording of the referendum question, said:“I do not think ...

Aug 23, 2016 - How Brexit has already changed Britain two months after the EU referendum .... These rights mean that UK based banks are free to sell their services across the ...

Brexit: EU referendum result 'not legally binding ... - The Independent

Jul 10, 2016 - The lawyers add that the Government should organise an independent ... who co-ordinated the creation of the letter, said: "Parliament is sovereign and the .... Re: Brexit. We are all individual members of the Bars of England and Wales, ...

We won't trigger Article 50 until after 2017 – and that means Brexit may ...

www.independent.co.uk/.../brexit-article-50-leaving-eu-wont-happen-after......

Aug 19, 2016 - It is now eight weeks since we voted to leave the EU but it may be at least eight years before the UK is fully and totally out of Europe – if we finally leave at all.

This brief response will be

HSG — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:56:18 +0000

In reply to They haven't come close to

This brief response will be my final one on this thread as these back and forths have become quite tedious. Your argument is that because the final departure of the UK from the EU hasn't yet occurred the disaster predicted by neoliberals and the financial services industry hasn't yet occurred. But the doom and gloomers didn't predicate disaster on the dotting of every I and crossing of every T in Brexit. They claimed that if "Leave" won the vote, the UK would immediately start to feel pain in a myriad of ways. Simply put, they were wrong. Your argument that Brexit isn't complete actually strengthens mine. The government will be in a better position to address stagflation when it is freed completely from EU fetters.

In answer to your sarcastic implication that I don't know economics while you are an expert, I am quite comfortable referring to my long record here at Dagblog . . . and yours.