dagblog - Comments for "Rehire the harassers "

I'm not sure. It's often

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 22:37:22 +0000

In reply to Read this yesterday, liked it

I'm not sure. It's often "feed the animals". They're ravenous for a certain worldview, and if that's not quite you, you can always "fake it before you make it". What do we think of a woman who carefully shielded her right-to-choose views from a conservative crowd but finally had the strength & disgust to say something, at which point the audience turns on her with a vengeance. Maybe we get some Schadenfreude from it, but it's kind of balmy. Try on a liberal site saying, "hey, maybe we shouldn't attack all White Southerners as greedy exploitive racist fucks", and you draw a ton of derision (I used to step into it regularly at OpenLeft with David Sirota and Paul Rosenberg. "Fail to live up to the behavioral standards of that audience" is rather a multi-prong beast.

BTW, glad I googled that up - ran across a dustup between Sirota, Rosenberg & Nate Silver I hadn't seen, clarifying some things re: populism vs progressivism that might help explain a few people around here and last year's election (Hal, are you listening?). Note 1 line - Reagan was bad for the working poor, but 60% of non-college graduates voted for him for re-election.

Another googled ref wasn't too great, though contained this gem of an insight related to a discussion the other day:

...[F]or sixteen months, denied the media honeymoon that every other president always had in his first year in office,The President has been one hundred percent unflappable. He has not lost his cool or blown his temper in public, not even once. Instead, Obama set to work cueing up his legislative priorities and shepherding them, one at a time, through a difficult Congress, especially hard in the Senate where 40 Republicans plus any one or two conservative Democrats could, as a minority, block the 100-member chamber from voting on any proposed law. And on every single law he proposed or backed, he won passage. Let me repeat that: Every single one. In baseball terms, Obama has batted 1.000. He hasn’t struck out once. Not yet. In a funny way, that infuriates his naysayers even more.

Whether one agrees with Obama’s positions or not, one has to give credit that is due: He walks to his own drumbeat and step by step has gotten big things accomplished.

While I imagine I might argue about some of these "big things accomplished", Obama went into office methodical during a heavy crisis, and faced a helluva lot more pushback than Trump's received, but was wholely unflappable - a great attribute in the face of expected adversity.

Read this yesterday, liked it

artappraiser — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 20:44:16 +0000

In reply to I agree with your numbers but

Read this yesterday, liked it. Didn't have anything to do with the law. Has to do with judging behavior:

What Makes Someone a ‘Predator’?

By MICHELLE DEAN DEC. 19, 2017 @ NYTimes Magazine.

A reminder that people get fired "for cause" all the time and other reasons like: just not a good fit. What does "not a good fit" mean? Don't like your behavior, in many cases.

The culture determines behavior in a lot of instances and when there's a cultural revolution much less culture change, sometimes things can get quite tough.

I am least sympathetic to those whose job depends upon popularity with an audience fail to live up to the behavioral standards of that audience. Or, by virtue of their persona that they have projected, cannot easily defend against an unfair or untrue smear. That would include people like politicians and TV personalities. The opposite of "tenured," where popularity with "constituents" is the goal of the job. The judge and jury is your "public", your constituents or audience. No one is preventing you from going into another line of work (often quite lucrative in these type of cases of national figures.)

Take it outside of sex, if Ellen DeGeneres was accused of being a nasty bullying shrew to everyone she works with, would it affect her audience? No, because she makes sure to project and protect her brand. They wouldn't believe it, wouldn't stop watching.

Yes, in this category of job, one hazard of the job is that you can be a victim of "witch hunts". If your actual persona is not the one that you sold (for megabucks or mega power) you risk this every day. Rail against abortion and tell a mistress to have one? Rail against homosexuals and get caught playing footsie with same in public bathrooms? You're fired! No court involved, just that it was clear that too many of your constituents who believed your public opinions now believed the accusers.

Mary Perry Helion & Winter

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:48:40 +0000

In reply to For a partial answer check

Mary Perry Helion & Winter Saul Stiss.

For a partial answer check

Flavius — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 18:56:06 +0000

In reply to Yes, and there was a cop in

For a partial answer check out my annual Auden bit which appears today. Merrry Chsristmas or any other holiday that you'd like to substitute. Or add.

Yes, and there was a cop in

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 16:41:00 +0000

In reply to I agree with your numbers but

Yes, and there was a cop in my town who went around raping girls he found out after dark, went on for a few years. And we of course know that cops can be caught on body cam lying and planting a weapon or shooting 29 holes in a guy who was holding a menacing cell phone and still walk free. I didn't deprecate people wrongly accused, and it's used a number of times to quit unwanted jobs etc - I'm sure some of those congressional cases are bullshit made up stuff paid out just to make it go away. But those others that get swept under the carpet so easily...

I mean, what is it about our system that would make a swimmer think he could go back to a case where he'd molested a comatose girl and got a slap on the wrist, and think he could get it all dropped based on his grades and sports skills? "Sorry I raped and killed her, but wanna see my forehand and freestyling moves? Tottally awesome"

I agree with your numbers but

Flavius — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 16:24:40 +0000

In reply to Except you're telling me the

I agree with your numbers but not with deprecating the damage done to the falsely accused . And to everyone else when the rule of law is undermined. In my 17th century example Giles Corey was just one person compared to the dozen young women who testified to his witchcraft. For which he was "pressed to death"

Agreed, just pointing out

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 06:42:00 +0000

In reply to Sure the game is hardly ever

Agreed, just pointing out another angle to the discussion.

Except you're telling me the

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 06:40:44 +0000

In reply to FWIW

Except you're telling me the system seems to be working for the accused before gets to charges and court, aside from whatever PR damage. Any victims actually helped by this, or still silenced? We're likely talking hundreds of thousands (millions?) here, not 2 or 3.

FWIW

Flavius — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 03:01:00 +0000

In reply to Rehire the harassers

FWIW

Received today from an UK acquaintance.

Quote

I don't know if you have the same thing over there, but we have a number of women and men coming out of the woodwork alleging rape or sexual harassment, sometimes years ago.

When the evidence (often having been partly hidden by the police) is fully examined, it's seen to be nonsense. The women or men were lying, and the cases dismissed.

Three different, and very public, "rape" cases have been dismissed. Another case is of a teacher accused of being a gym teacher and fondling young boys. In fact he wasn't a gym teacher and had no contact with the accusers.

The problem with this is that the accused may have been dreadful people, but the evidence produced was false, so they get off.

So we're back to the old days where no one believes so-called "victims" any more.

Unquote

Sure the game is hardly ever

ocean-kat — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:31:40 +0000

In reply to Except office politics and

Sure the game is hardly ever a pure meritocracy. But it's surely worse when women have the additional hurdle of having to endure a touchy feely boss or occasionally fuck him to keep her job or get ahead.