dagblog - Comments for "Never Trust an Action Hero: Star Wars' Lost Politics"

Asimov's Foundation and

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 15:58:37 +0000

In reply to I was actually nervous about

Asimov's Foundation and Empire feels pretty useful right now what with the Mule as idiot-Savant ruling the universe. We laugh at how insane Trump is, but somehow he's still largely winning in terms of disastrous effect, and somehow I'm worried this Wolff book will backfire too.

Read Brunner's early prescient book on computer viruses. Stanislav Lem's Cyberiad had a more humorous take on science fiction, while his Solaris is miles ahead of Tarkovsky's wannabe-2001 bore-a-thon movie adaptation. Walter Tevis' Man Eho Fell to Earth was a milestone, even without the movie (I had a particular fascination for women and gin as man's fatal flaws about then). And then there's Battlefield Earth to let you know where the bottom lies - think of Snakes on a Plane dragged out over 10 volumes, though I'mprobly being unkind to Snakes, which at least had reptile coitus interruptus of the Mile High Club as one of its flag episodes - and there I'd only ever worried about stewardesses barging in.

Does either of you, or other

AmericanDreamer — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 16:55:50 +0000

In reply to Being highly educated doesn't

Does either of you, or other readers, have any feedback on Cixin Liu's Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy?

Being highly educated doesn't

Doctor Cleveland — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 04:10:16 +0000

In reply to I was actually nervous about

Being highly educated doesn't mean I'm always right, even about Shakespeare.

Those are good choices. I like The Diamond Age a lot myself, and have enjoyed teaching it.

I love Ursula K. Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness, which I taught recently, and The Dispossessed.

I love William Gibson's Neuromancer and the rest of that trilogy, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive.

I'm a big fan of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy (Red MArs, Green Mars, and Blue Mars).

I think Kelly Link, who only writes short stories so far, is one of the best writers working today. I also love Bradbury, who was better at stories than at novels, and Samuel R. Delany.

I was actually nervous about

ocean-kat — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 02:14:31 +0000

In reply to You know what, o-k? I give.

I was actually nervous about debating literature with a literature professor and Shakespearian scholar. I was afraid I'd look like a fool for fighting out of my weight class. I got the impression that the elite opinion was that sci-fi was trash. I'm glad to hear you disagree since I like sci-fi and I do respect the opinions of the intellectual elite though I may not always agree. If you feel like listing a few of your favorite sci-fi novels I'd be interested. Here's a few of mine. They're all a cut above normal sci-fi and deal with complex issues in a sophisticated manner as well as being good stories that are different than any other sci-fi novel.

Stand on Zanzibar by David Brunner

The Diamond Age by Neil Stephenson

The Void Captain's Tale and Child of Fortune by Norman Spinrad.

Oh bother, I said I was

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 22:58:29 +0000

In reply to Fine. But that is not how you

Oh bother, I said I was paraphrasing from memory, but I don't see a large difference between tjethe actual quote

Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.

and my paraphrase

more problems have been solved thru violence than any other means...

Just want to say it's been a

artappraiser — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 22:12:00 +0000

In reply to You know what, o-k? I give.

Just want to say it's been a joy to read along as you and oceankat and pp converse on this, even tho I know nothing about Heinlen, what I see is the way I wish all disagreements on the internet could go. Rest of us learn something! (Could it have something to do with experience as a teacher? Methinks: yes!)

You know what, o-k? I give.

Doctor Cleveland — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:09:33 +0000

In reply to It seems to be your view now

You know what, o-k? I give.

But I don't think science fiction is almost never great literature. I think some great work has been done in science fiction. I get frustrated with Heinlein because, for all his talents, he often falls short.

It seems to be your view now

ocean-kat — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:04:01 +0000

In reply to Let me go back to what I said

It seems to be your view now that any one book by an author that wrote dozens can be used to characterize an author's total work. I disagree but I understand your view. I just wonder if you apply that standard to every author you read or discuss in your classes.

Heinlein's moral rationalizations for Smith's violent behavior is not that he is allowed to just kill dudes with his superpowers, because he's better than other people. That's 100% totally false. I don't want to explain his reasoning because I disagree with it but if you really want me to I will. This is such sloppy analysis and you are so much better than this. We probably agree that Sci-fi is almost never great literature and perhaps you don't want to waste your time on such low brow writing. But if you're going to opine on it you should know a bit more.

Let me go back to what I said

Doctor Cleveland — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 20:37:30 +0000

In reply to You know, I loved Heinlein as

Let me go back to what I said:

Heinlein's science fiction moves toward military authoritarianism pretty fast.

Now, you feel this is unfair because it, in your words, over-emphasizes Starship Troopers. And I tried to talk through some of Heinlein's other work. But let me point out one thing about Robert Heinlein:

That motherfucker wrote Starship Troopers.

He also wrote a beloved novel where a super-human messiah is allowed to just kill dudes with his superpowers, because he's better than other people.

Is it not fair for me to say that his work "moves toward military authoritarianism pretty fast" because only one of his most famous works is a full-blown military authoritarian wankfest? Okay. Fine.

Fine. But that is not how you

Doctor Cleveland — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 20:30:55 +0000

In reply to You miss my point. I read 1

Fine. But that is not how you initially presented the quote. You wrote:

What's Heinlein's line about "more problems have been solved thru violence than any other means..."

If it's "settled issues," that is harder to deny. But I wasn't denying it, because you hadn't said that. I was denying the virtue of violence as a problem-solver, with the positive value that implies.

I might make a case for science, trade, and other things having settled a lot of issues, with less damage in the process, but this has already gone on too long.