dagblog - Comments for "When Smug Liberals Met Conservative Trolls"

Since we can't attain

barefooted — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 21:13:32 +0000

In reply to Of course, I acknowledge that

Since we can't attain perfection, does that mean we should ignore the gains for labor/consumers and massive improvements to global environmental causes as well as steps toward economic equality that the flawed agreements represent? Should we simply turn up our noses at possibilities because we dislike the "global elites", even as we struggle to collectively define who they are?

I'm so sick of this stuff PP.

HSG — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 20:53:13 +0000

In reply to What land reform where? Ho

I'm so sick of this stuff PP. I want to have a polite respectful discussion I am prepared to do so. Are you?

Of course, I acknowledge that

HSG — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 20:45:14 +0000

In reply to Our government has very

Of course, I acknowledge that there's no perfect trade agreement. Moreover, even if there were one, it would remain perfect for a nanosecond before dynamics changed what was perfect. But just because we can't attain perfection doesn't mean we should accept deeply flawed agreements that are written by and for global elites with little or no input from laborers, environmentalists, or consumer advocates.

TRADE WAR FIRST...!

NCD — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 19:53:18 +0000

In reply to Speak of the devil of not

TRADE WAR FIRST...!

REAL WAR NEXT..!!!

Barefoot, excellent comment!

NCD — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 19:51:47 +0000

In reply to Our government has very

Barefoot, excellent comment! Especially:

Hal... do you have a solution that incorporates all the pluses and subtracts all the minuses enough to create the perfect trade balance around the world? If not, perhaps you will, at least, consider that greater minds than yours have worked to find such a thing and have thus far failed ...

The remarkable thing about both Hal and Trump is both have an authoritarian bent, both have "the best" simplistic schemes to make America great again.

Both believe in their own infallibility as to "obvious" facile solutions for every conceivable problem/issue/weakness/iniquity of humanity and government. Present and causing trouble in various forms since the dawn of recorded history. (ie bad stuff happened before Bill Clinton and even before the "neolibs"..!!)

Speak of the devil of not

artappraiser — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 19:49:36 +0000

In reply to Barefoot, excellent comment!

Speak of the devil of not giving a damn what those with some knowledge think: Trump demands aides pump up anti-China tariffs/After the administration's top trade official presented a package targeting $30 billion a year in imports, the president asked for an even bigger number. @ Politico.com,2:26 pm

Our government has very

barefooted — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 19:25:31 +0000

In reply to Child labor is a documented

Our government has very little power over child labor traffickers in Asia while free trade makes the practice much more profitable since the margins are higher when you're manufacturing for sale to relatively wealthy consumers in developed nations.

The much derided TPP included such child labor practices in Asian countries among its conditions. There were shortfalls, to be sure:

The TPP’s Labour chapter reiterates that all members should adopt and maintain the labor rights of the ILO. It also calls for all participants to end child labor and forced labor, and to allow workers to form unions and collectively bargain. It requires a minimum-wage, and safety and health standards meant to prevent common abuses like overcrowding, fire hazards, and overwork. But the document does not specify how any of those measures should work. And that’s a big shortcoming, according to John Sifton, the Asia advocacy director with Human Rights Watch. The minimum wage, for example, could be set at a penny an hour—which wouldn’t do much to help workers.

Within that article and hundreds of others, all kinds of current policies are dismantled even as possibilities for new ones are dissected and pronounced "not nearly good enough". Makes me wonder if anything ever will be.

Hal, since all trade agreements include so much more than what, where and how stuff is bought and sold, do you have a solution that incorporates all the pluses and subtracts all the minuses enough to create the perfect trade balance around the world? If not, perhaps you will, at least, consider that greater minds than yours have worked to find such a thing and have thus far failed ... and that the need to keep trying "trumps" everything else.

Go back and look at your

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 18:27:00 +0000

In reply to Child labor is a documented

Go back and look at your claim. You lied to me about me. Quit telling you didn't. Just don't do it.

AA.s derision is that our exceptional 50's decade was exceptional. If Europe could desteoy itself every decade, maybe we could sustain iti

'll accept that Italy has a poverty problem including some child labor, a tradition especially in the south, made worse by the mafia state the last 10-15 years. What it has to do with trade, I dont get. As AA noted, as societies increase their wealth, they put their kids in schools and not factories/street hawking. Child labor AFAIK has greatly decreased of late, though the 2008 collapse worsened things worldwide. Again, I dont see this as the natural byproduct of trade.

I haven't denied that

HSG — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 15:50:36 +0000

In reply to Let's say? You've been

I haven't denied that roboticization is a factor in declining employment and have recommended ways to deal with it. Do you acknowledge that single-payer/Medicare-for-all is essential to deal with it. I didn't trash Hillary's plan for debt-free college.

Child labor is a documented

HSG — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 15:48:05 +0000

In reply to Oddly, Hal, here in the EU we

Child labor is a documented problem in EU countries Bulgaria and Italy. Our government has very little power over child labor traffickers in Asia while free trade makes the practice much more profitable since the margins are higher when you're manufacturing for sale to relatively wealthy consumers in developed nations.

You allege that I have lied about you. I reject that accusation. I may have mischaracterized your positions on some issues but I have never willfully or recklessly done so. You on the other hand routinely misstate my views e.g., "[i]t's like you think there are countries that have trade simply without rules, which is a fantasy of yours" and implying that I ever attributed UC's tuition hikes since the 1960s to "free trade." Edit to add: looking at my last response, I guess I can see how you might have gleaned the idea that I blame trade for higher tuition. I erred in the way I broke up the paragraphs. My point about UC was that the 50s and 60s were a much better time in many ways for working and middle-class Americans despite AA's derision.