dagblog - Comments for "Did Trump Do America A Favor?"

You are right. It is

moat — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 13:46:46 +0000

In reply to I'm actually more interested

You are right. It is important to articulate an alternate timeline.
The primary difference would have been a continued complacency over the eventual outcome of the culture wars. Confidence that we were headed toward a more open, diverse, and equal society turns out to have been misplaced. That confidence turns out to have been a luxury we weren't really paying for but just putting on the credit card.

If 2008 didn't wake up post

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 05:30:07 +0000

In reply to Did Trump Do America A Favor?

If 2008 didn't wake up post-millennials, 2017/8 has. A Hillary victory may have sidetracked a #MeTo/#TimeIsUp movement, or made it more organic without as much need to protest and still inspiration. Russia might have gotten claws in deeper with no crisis or warning bells. The Courts? Wow in terms of packing them, but more activism in terms of fighting outrageous behavior. State legislatures? Likely the biggest gift. Blacks? Still at the back of the bus waiting for serious solutions. Immigration? Still no adult conversation. Guns? A pkus if you haven't already been shot, though NRA is fighting clawback.

Anyway, next gen will prolly be fighters, and the tech leaders of Silicon Valley are no longer gods.

I'm actually more interested

barefooted — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 02:18:17 +0000

In reply to Yes. Results.

I'm actually more interested in how the public - Democrat, Independent, etc. yes, but also Republican - has responded to the Trump presidency over time. What Congress would have done if Clinton was elected is beside the point, since they would have been the opposing party and expected to obstruct wherever possible (especially with a President Clinton). Yet it matters greatly in our perception of an alternate timeline - and whether it would have been better or worse in the long form. It's that perception that creates a voting mindset.

Whatever you consider an important quality of the present experience, and to me there are many, it's impossible to say if they would have been the same in a Clinton administration; up to and including foreign entanglements old and possibly new.

I'm likely missing your larger point, moat, as I often do. But this -

"You know you are in a fight when someone hits you in the face."

I'm guessing most of us are understanding that right about now.

Yes. Results.

moat — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 01:24:10 +0000

In reply to But it's all about what you

Yes.
Results.

But it's all about what you

barefooted — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 01:12:45 +0000

In reply to I agree with the assertion

But it's all about what you do in response.

I agree with the assertion

moat — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 01:03:37 +0000

In reply to While we don’t know to what

I agree with the assertion that the present administration has motivated liberals to act in a way they would not have done if Clinton had won. But the emphasis on the stalemates that would have ensued if the election had gone the other way misses an important quality of the present experience.

You know you are in a fight when someone hits you in the face.

Nah, I don't see it as

barefooted — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 01:00:59 +0000

In reply to Kinda related: evangelical

Nah, I don't see it as particularly related at all. No group or "leader" is specifically named, it's planned but nothing's confirmed and despite their (whoever they are) denials that hosting it at Trump's hotel has anything to do with anything that tidbit seems to be the only thing firmed up thus far. Whether previous Trump supporters of any stripe choose to support him going forward isn't the point - though any defections are gladly accepted. ;-)

Kinda related: evangelical

artappraiser — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 00:43:57 +0000

In reply to Did Trump Do America A Favor?

Kinda related: evangelical leaders fearing some of their brethren will not be inspired to vote (on the other hand, a President Pence would probably please them to no end)

'Concerned' Evangelicals Plan To Meet With Trump As Sex Scandals Swirl

By Sarah McCammon @ NPR.org, April 6

As allegations continue to swirl about the president and a payout to a porn star to cover up a sexual encounter, evangelical leaders are organizing a sit-down with President Trump in June, four sources with knowledge of the planned meeting tell NPR.

"We're very concerned" about the allegations, said a leader of a faith-based ministry. The leader is involved in hosting the gathering, which organizers are aiming to take place June 19 at Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C. The source said the combination of the Stormy Daniels sex-scandal allegations and Trump's continued reputation for divisive rhetoric could suppress evangelical turnout in the November midterm elections.

"It is a concern of ours that 2018 could be very detrimental to some of the other issues that we hold dear," like preserving religious liberty and restricting abortion rights, the source noted. The source, like the others with knowledge of the event, spoke to NPR on the condition of anonymity so as to not jeopardize the meeting [.....]

While we don’t know to what

barefooted — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 23:46:30 +0000

In reply to Did Trump Do America A Favor?

While we don’t know to what extent all that will be reversed in November, they’re certain to make substantial gains. And it’s worth considering where they’d be right now if 100,000 votes were shifted in the Rust Belt and Hillary Clinton had won the electoral college in addition to the popular vote. The Republican Congress not only wouldn’t pass any legislation even remotely favorable to liberal goals, it would be occupied with an orgy of investigation of everything the Clinton administration did — Benghazi times 100. There would be a new tea party taking to the streets and generating energy in advance of the 2018 elections. Those elections would be almost guaranteed to deepen the Republican hold on Congress and state legislatures. A whole new backlash would be underway.

If the country (and the world) can overcome the Trump years and triumph, we may all breathe not only a sigh of relief, but one of deep satisfaction over a job well done. Beyond that, maybe we'll have even learned a few long-term lessons on how not to repeat this particular mistake..