dagblog - Comments for "Democratic Party files lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 campaign"

I have a particular view of

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:07:22 +0000

In reply to Just on this: In 1972 we as a

I have a particular view of 1972 from the South, certainly not covering all perspectives in the south, but I don't recall people glossing over or defending break-ins. The sense I had was that this was rather serious stuff if true. Perhaps that's more the 1974 version when it was on TV, and earlier I suppose it was much less certain that Nixon ordered this than the level of Trump's involvement, and there's just so much that Trump does that Nixon would have never gotten away with. Nixon was even trashed for *drawing down a big war presence in 4 years* whereas a Bush or Obama could keep Iraq and Afghanistan going for a decade+ with no big effect on popularity.

Citizen journalism's a bit like bitcoin - regular cash or credit cards or other bank transaction seems safer and more credible. But if the banks turn dodgy, such as Goldman Sachs selling poisonous assets with impunity, you're more or less stuck with the alternatives - at least in the journalistic world. Maybe similar to how Wells Fargo is behaving to how Sinclair and Fox are...

Just on this: In 1972 we as a

artappraiser — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:06:07 +0000

In reply to Watergate was a break-in of

Just on this: In 1972 we as a nation were appalled.

I don't remember it that way, I don't think things differ much in that factor. I think people were just about as cynical about politics then as they are now. Granted, just my humble opinion of a college student remembering and I wasn't reading polls nor the East Coast newspapers at the time.

I think many were fascinated by the mystery story slowing leaking out, as they are now, and then by the hearings, more in a "gotcha" kinda way, that one finally got caught at the dirty tricks that always went on.

If anything, young people were more cynical because they were already 100% sure that the LBJ government was lying and cheating a lot about Vietnam before Nixon even got in.

If anything, for the older folks, the farther back one goes there was more expectation of funny business, no transparency, backroom dealings and criminal activity in government than there is now. People weren't "appalled" by Boss Tweed or the Chicago machine, rather, they thought it was the standard and no one could ever get rid of it and have honest government.

Go back to Roman era graffitti, and this cynicism was also there.

I think there are higher expectations now because of the development first of a journalism with some kind of standards in the second half of 20th century and then adding in the internet citizen journalism you like to laud. I see it as once and the same thing, gradual progress a gradual development of higher expectations and the tools to try to achieve them. I don't see the enemy situation you do. If a citizen journalist does good work, I don't see the animosity you do. (When one gets too heavily into that whole thing, there can be a tendency to get into the Lulu problem, where certain citizens are seen as having the truth and the rest are all liars.)

The catch-22 I see is a whole different problem: that the internet, together with its citizens willing to work for free have left the standard journalistic outlets, which once were on a trajectory to continue to improve the profession, having to cut costs, cut staff,

Allow me to digress a bit: Look at what's going on. Companies like the NYTimes are hiring people like Marcy Wheeler. But no doubt paying less than they used to pay. People like Josh Marshall depend upon people working for free feeding them research privately via email rather than in public comments, something that's always bothered me about his approach. Everybody has to chase click bait unless they are working for free. Enter bots and faux news. Houston, we've got a big problem. If there are no standards at all, we've got a real big problem. Yuge. I would say it's real real real important to be very skeptical about all "citizen journalism" now. Should actually be a top priority.

Watergate was a break-in of

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 06:40:47 +0000

In reply to The D.N.C.’s Lawsuit Against

Watergate was a break-in of DNC headquarters to steal planning documents. Russiagate started as a hack of DNC mails to steal planning documents (yes, they got a lot of it, this time using Wikileaks to post their private strategies on the internet). In 1972 we as a nation were appalled; in 2015 we were largely complacent - because it was Hillary, because "information wants to be free", because we were used to the internet and email and lack of privacy, because the far left (combined with who?) had set up the background meme that the "corrupt" DNC & others were plotting and committing all sorts of heinous crimes in the background.

I will contest Toobin's claim that "the news media have been aggressive" - they've largely been complicit, happy to get their Trump outrage financial windfall. There likely would have been *zero* investigation if Buzzfeed hadn't broken with the pack to publish the 6-month old Steele Dossier 2 months after the election (to much scorn and condemnation for its "unprofessionalism"). Even Comey pretends he was pushing the investigation of the FBI leaks but when fired *6 months after the election/6 1/2 after the FBI leaks* he had zilch). Most of the heavy lifting has come from citizen journalists like Marcy Wheeler (initially providing some healthy evidence-based skepticism about the more unjustifiable claims), Seth Abramson, *gasp* Louise Mensch, *gasp* Palmer Report, Adam Khan, and a huge bunch of others, along with a few outlets like Bloomberg that broke early news that was largely ignored. That some of this published info took 18 months to become certified by mainstream outlets (James Risen, ex-NYTimes/now Intercept, just this week breathtakingly discovered after a year of ridiculing others that there really is a "there there" - thank you, Pater, for issuing this sacrament...)

Revelations like Cohen's travels (possible flight numbers), meetings in the Mayflower, the length & details of Trump's lost Moscow weekend, what Papadopoulos was doing in Athens and Israel, what Eric Prince was doing in Seychelles, Manafort & Rick Gates' activities in Ukraine & elsewhere, SCL/Cambridge Analytica's behavior worldwide including the Mercers' backing, data laundering, money laundering in Little Moscow in Florida, the Kushner loan gambit, the GRU's role as Guccifer, Wikileaks role including UKIP's Nigel Farage as a go-between, and Giuliani's criminal ties to this group of rogue FBI agents were all rather well explored (including *gasp* investigative efforts) on twitter, blog, et al, usually long before they gained currency with mainstream press - often then taken & published without attribution.

The D.N.C.’s Lawsuit Against

artappraiser — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 05:19:03 +0000

In reply to Democratic Party files lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 campaign

The D.N.C.’s Lawsuit Against Russia and the Trump Campaign Isn’t a Bad Idea

Opinion/Analysis by Jeffrey Toobin @ NewYorker.com, April 24

Ah yes, the man you gave

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 08:01:30 +0000

In reply to He just couldn't take it

Ah yes, the man you gave Russians sensitive Israeli intelligence and to whom Nunes leaked FBI investigation info is still worried about Hillary's State emails 5-6 years ago. Never mind the Comey memos that leaked within a half an hour of the House receiving them. Never mind the role Trump played in Wikileaks and the Russians leaking DNC emails.

PS - I've never met a Pakistani man who wasn't a mystery, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

He just couldn't take it

artappraiser — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 22:42:11 +0000

In reply to Democratic Party files lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 campaign

He just couldn't take it anymore, I happened to check teh covfefe feed a few minutes ago and caught it, @ 6:34 pm he hit the button....Pakistani mystery man et. al...., I'll paste it here so you don't have to click there:

Just heard the Campaign was sued by the Obstructionist Democrats. This can be good news in that we will now counter for the DNC Server that they refused to give to the FBI, the Wendy Wasserman Schultz Servers and Documents held by the Pakistani mystery man and Clinton Emails.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 20, 2018

Marcy on McCabe - just like

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 20:25:44 +0000

In reply to Is there any room in the

Marcy on McCabe - just like Comey, McCabe shouldn't push it too much. And why they hell did those 2 sit on Weiner's laptop with emails for 24 days, and go to the press before having his team spend 1-2 days figuring out what was there? Abramson thinks this is going to come out in some upcoming IG report, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Is there any room in the

artappraiser — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 19:58:34 +0000

In reply to Democratic Party files lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 campaign

Is there any room in the court dockets left for anything not related to Trumpco?

McCabe to sue Trump admin for defamation, wrongful termination

@ TheHill.com- 04/20/18 12:24 PM EDT

DNC sues Russian government,

artappraiser — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:12:19 +0000

In reply to Democratic Party files lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 campaign

DNC sues Russian government, Trump campaign, WikiLeaks alleging 2016 conspiracy plot

By Cristiano Lima @ Politico.com, April 20

The lawsuit accuses top officials for the Trump campaign and Russian government officials of engaging in a vast coordinated effort to inflict damage on Hillary Clinton.

DNC sues Russia, Trump campaign and WikiLeaks over alleged election interference

By Avery Anapol @ TheHill.com - 04/20/18 11:10 AM EDT

Edit to add:

The New York Times has to give hat tip to WaPo in their coverage, kind of curious why that happened, one would think the DNC would alert all the big media at the same time:

Democratic Party Alleges Trump-Russia Conspiracy in New Lawsuit

By Michael D. Shear, April 20

[....] The 66-page lawsuit, filed in federal court in New York, assembles the publicly known facts of the investigation into Russia’s election meddling to accuse Mr. Trump’s associates of illegally working with Russian intelligence agents to interfere with the outcome of the election.

“The conspiracy constituted an act of previously unimaginable treachery: the campaign of the presidential nominee of a major party in league with a hostile foreign power to bolster its own chance to win the presidency,” the D.N.C. wrote in its lawsuit, which was first reported by The Washington Post. [....]